FAQ  •  Register   •  Gallery •  Login

It is currently Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:24 am

advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

<<

stevewithrow

User avatar

SILVER-7t

Posts: 1327

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:59 am

Location: Great NorthWest.....Carver Country..

Post Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:27 pm

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

...
Last edited by stevewithrow on Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<<

lawdog10231

Newbie 50+

Posts: 69

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:49 am

Post Mon Sep 15, 2008 11:31 am

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

My experience with horizontal bi-amping led me to use ery different amplifiers. For the ribbons I used Counterpoint Natural Progression Mono Blocks which put out only 150 watts per but more current than maybe any other amp on the market 20 years ago. I used the Sunfires for the Bass with the voltage taps. As good as the Counterpoint mono blocks are, when it came to bi-amping the Amazings, they couldn't compete with the coherence and absolute power of the vertically bi-amped Sunfire amps. Coincidentally, I used Rane active crossovers (the AC-22) when I wasn't using Infinity's own with the feedback loop to keep the load for the bass the same as the load for the ribbons above.

If I hadn't heard it, I wouldn't have believed it possible. The original Sunfire amps and the original Amazings were made for each other in this configuration. I don't know if Bob consciously decided to make an amp that would be perfect for his original state of the art speaker. But whether his motivation was conscious or unconscious--there is no questioning his genius in making the two for each other over a period of about 5 years or so.
<<

BillD

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 7295

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:13 pm

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

Well, if my recollection is correct, the original Sunfire 300x2s were pretty much just simplified Lightstars. The Sunfire's were made quite some time after the Amazing Originals.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
<<

RichP714

SILVER-7t

Posts: 1814

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:12 pm

Post Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

BillD wrote:Well, if my recollection is correct, the original Sunfire 300x2s were pretty much just simplified Lightstars. The Sunfire's were made quite some time after the Amazing Originals.
Hopefully somone brought this up to bob at Carverfest; I've always been under the assumption that Lightstar used a 'brute force' method of tracking-down (basically shunting the rail so it wouldn't float) as in:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... =AN/carver

While Sunfire used a more elegant solution, as in:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... PN/6166605

and

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... %2F6104248

and

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Pars ... PN/6373335
Last edited by RichP714 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<<

docadillac

TFM-25

Posts: 357

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:09 pm

Location: The wet coast of Canada

Post Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:26 pm

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

lawdog10231 wrote:My experience with horizontal bi-amping led me to use ery different amplifiers. For the ribbons I used Counterpoint Natural Progression Mono Blocks which put out only 150 watts per but more current than maybe any other amp on the market 20 years ago. I used the Sunfires for the Bass with the voltage taps. As good as the Counterpoint mono blocks are, when it came to bi-amping the Amazings, they couldn't compete with the coherence and absolute power of the vertically bi-amped Sunfire amps. Coincidentally, I used Rane active crossovers (the AC-22) when I wasn't using Infinity's own with the feedback loop to keep the load for the bass the same as the load for the ribbons above.

If I hadn't heard it, I wouldn't have believed it possible. The original Sunfire amps and the original Amazings were made for each other in this configuration. I don't know if Bob consciously decided to make an amp that would be perfect for his original state of the art speaker. But whether his motivation was conscious or unconscious--there is no questioning his genius in making the two for each other over a period of about 5 years or so.


I have often wondered about that match and I thought that it would be pretty synergystic. Even though the Sunfire was made after the original ALS I had believed that coming from Bob that combination would work quite well. Although the Silver Seven t's had more power and were made I believe to run the original ALS speakers, The Sunfire 300x2 amps were no "weaker sibling". Apparantly, the Sunfire amps could deliver the goods sonically and power wise i don't think they would run out of gas too easily if at all.
<<

lawdog10231

Newbie 50+

Posts: 69

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:49 am

Post Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:40 pm

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

The Sunfire 300 is basically the Lightstar which was built many years after Carver made the original Amazings. I had to think that the reason Bob went through all the different mods after he built the originals was due to the fact that people all over the world were blowing up their amps trying to drive the Amazings when they dipped down to a 1 ohm load. It seems like quite a coincidence that it would be the perfect amp to drive these speakers and it had the twin taps letting you optimize both channels on each for ribbons and cone drivers.

I just have a feeling he might have designed the Lightstar to be the perfect amp for the original amazings.
<<

lawdog10231

Newbie 50+

Posts: 69

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:49 am

Post Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:31 pm

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

I'm still hoping someone can give me a few suggestions. David indicated tightening the screw (gently) directly behind the buzz--which I assume is similar to my "spitting sound" which I have difficulty doing since a previous owner striped the screw and it will not bore into the metal like it is supposed to do. This would seem to be the problem--at least one would think. I just wonder why it took over a year and a half of regular playing of all kinds of music to suddenly show up.

I seem to have reduced the amplitude and area of the spit significantly by carefully smoothing the area with a hospital grade q-tip moistened with Teak Contact Cleaner, but I can still hear it although most of my friends and my wife have to put their ears to the ribbon itself to hear it. I'm considering the hair dryer as suggested as a last resort by Dave on another thread.

I was wondering if anybody has tried smoothing the area with a hospital grade q tip moistened with a really good contact enhancer--or would that be too dangerous in view of possibly causing short?

I read a long review of the Platinums written by some joker with Stereophile who obviously didn't like Bob and had ears of tin because he heard all kinds of terrible noises I've never heard with the Amazings. In his lengthy review he said that Bob ad he tried to stretch materials like silk stockings and masking tape over portions of the ribbon that were producing audible resonances--which is exactly what my spitting sound is. It's a resonance which muffles the sound sufficiently that it sounds like an exaggerated spitting sibulent sound. Anybody ever try stretching an old nylon over the back of the resonating section of the ribbon? ](*,)

If I'm in virgin territory here, I guess I'll just start trying different things on a trial and error approach starting with the least invasive processes first. :-"

But if anyone has been here before me, I'd appreciate anybody's advice before I undertake something like this all on my own. :shock:

My wife tells me I should just use the handyman's secret weapon and duct tape the back of the ribbon. #-o

But she also keeps saying "I told you so" because she advised me not to monkey around with the wiring of the speaker to begin with... [-X
<<

docadillac

TFM-25

Posts: 357

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:09 pm

Location: The wet coast of Canada

Post Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:50 am

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

I had to do the ribbon screw tightening procedure a while ago myself so I'll tell you what I did. A stripped or loose screw will cause the tension on that part of the ribbon assembly to become looser than it should. The screws that hold the ribbon assembly together go through to the other side (It's basically a sandwich). You cannot see them because they are hidden by the front of the ribbon frame part of the assembled panel. The fix for this would be to remove the rear screws that hold the ribbon assembly to the panel. They are the outermost screws of the ribbon. The screws that hold the ribbon sandwich" part of the assembly are the innermost screws closest to the ribbon material. Before removing the panel you will have to remove the wires that drive the ribbons. You can do this by simply cutting the wires. Be sure to mark which lead is connected to either side of the ribbon i.e. red or black so that you resolder them back to the correct polarity. This is to ensure the correct direction of movement of the ribbon i.e. in or out of phase. After carefully removing the ribbon assembly (do not drop or lay on an uneven or unbalanced surface) from the panel you can then remove the troublesome screw and simply install a new one of the same size. The screws are tightened by the use of a nut on the other end. Remember to reinstall the nut retainer under the nut to maintain proper tension. This should fix the buzz you hear. If it does not fix the buzz, them there is a problem with the ribbon itself and it will need to be rebuilt. Re-install in the reverse order of your removal,re-attach the wires and fire it up and you should have music sans buzzing. Please call Dave S. if you have any other questions as he is the master builder and I am not as experienced as he is.As I mentioned earlier I have done this myself but it was at least 3-4 years ago and I called Dave S. for his help and advice. I do believe I've got it right though. I hope this helps your ribbon buzz problem. As far as material on the back of the ribbon goes, it was some type of cloth. This was to dampen the rear reflection of the ribbon as it bounced off the wall behind it. I don't remember the name of the material off the top of my head, but I do know that it ran the entire length of the ribbon from top to bottom.
<<

lawdog10231

Newbie 50+

Posts: 69

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:49 am

Post Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:18 pm

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

Thanks for the information. I really appreciate your going to all the trouble to make it as specific as you did. I'm one of those types that has trouble driving a screw without injuring myself so it really helps to have a detailed idea as to what I'm about to do before I do it.

8-[ :-k #-o

Mucho thanks!
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13258

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Wed May 04, 2011 6:30 am

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

Interesting; I never saw this thread before now.

I'm going to PM lawdog & see if he rectified his spitting ribbon....
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

Mr. M-500t

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 6211

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:00 pm

Post Wed May 04, 2011 6:53 am

Re: advice for tweaking a ribbon that spits? My system.

Hmmmm ???

Last visit,
Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:20 pm
To bad, seams like a nice guy.
Previous

Return to List / Update Your System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB © 2011 phpBB Group.