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My systems

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Jag_97470

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 3383

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:06 am

Location: Oregon

Post Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:40 pm

Re: My systems

I love the looks of those speakers! There was another post around here showing the construction of those, just awesome! I wonder? It looks like you have MIT shotgun speaker cable? but what is the small black wire running to the back of that speaker? it looks like it goes to a AC/DC converter box? Strange
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Dreamer

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SILVER-7t

Posts: 1616

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:17 am

Location: Washington, NC

Post Thu Dec 25, 2008 2:09 am

Re: My systems

Jag, you are quite right, that is an AC adapter (wall wart). Those speakers are Martin Logans, meaning the main driver in them (the curved panel on top) is en Electrostatic panel. This type of driver requires a high-voltage power supply to function, and so you have to not only hook them up to your amplifier via regular speaker connections, you have to plug these speakers into an AC outlet too!

The way it works is like this: the woofer in an electrostatic hybrid speaker is traditional--there is a crossover that sends the speaker-level signal directly to the woofer. Butt the ESL panel--that's a different story. After the crossover, the signal goes to another circuit, which energizes the mylar diaphram with a high-voltage, low amperage current, and then music signal gets modulated into a similar current which is run to the metal grids in front and back of the mylar (the stators).

Click here to go to the Martin Logan web page for more detailed info...

If you've never heard Martin Logans, you really need to track down a good dealer, or someone on this forum who owns a pair and give them a listen. They are like nothing you've ever heard...

But then again, I'm the forum's unofficial "Martin Logan Evangelist", so my opinion is admittedly a little biased... \:D/

--Richard
.....HT Rig • Sony STR-DG600 Receiver • Carver M-500t • Sony BDP-S1 • Sony DVP-NS3100ES • Apple Airport Express •
..............................• Martin Logan Scenarios, Logos • Realistic Minimus 7's • Velodyne F-1500b •

2 Ch. Rig • Carver C-4000t • Silver 7t's • Krell KAV-300i • Oppo DV-981HD • Benchmark DAC1-USB • MacBook Pro 17", iTunes •
......• Technics SL-1350 turntable with Sumiko headshell, leads, and Bluepoint cartridge • Martin Logan Sequels •

.........................................................-+-Click Here to see my system-+-
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engtaz

User avatar

"TAZ"

Posts: 5211

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:43 pm

Location: Tampa, FL

Post Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:43 am

Re: My systems

5 ohms is different. I have heard some and I will say that they are the first and only speakers I have heard that literally disappears. No left or right just a wall of sound. Sweet spot is more critical for best sound imaging. Very very nice speakers.
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
Bogen SRB20 is computer amp
Carver PM-350 donated for youth church use
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Jag_97470

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 3383

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:06 am

Location: Oregon

Post Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:06 pm

Re: My systems

Thanks Dreamer for explaining that. I checked out the site and Yes, those are some Awesome speakers! Very interesting design. Do you have to run a sub? The spec seems a little high on the low side? Do you have good low end bass or do you need a Sub to compliment? Thanks
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OBI56

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SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Post Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:10 pm

Re: My systems

Jag_97470 wrote:I love the looks of those speakers! There was another post around here showing the construction of those, just awesome! I wonder? It looks like you have MIT shotgun speaker cable? but what is the small black wire running to the back of that speaker? it looks like it goes to a AC/DC converter box? Strange


MIT Shotguns? I WISH!!!! Nope,those are the lowly AVt-3 speaker interfaces and the MT-330 S2 icomponent interfaces. The little black boxes are are wall warts.
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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OBI56

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SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Post Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:20 pm

Re: My systems

engtaz wrote:5 ohms is different. I have heard some and I will say that they are the first and only speakers I have heard that literally disappears. No left or right just a wall of sound. Sweet spot is more critical for best sound imaging. Very very nice speakers.


Not quite Engtaz, 5 ohms nominal 1 ohm at 20Khz. The wall of sound is one way of describing it; my description is that there are no speakers there and the sweet spot is a lot wider than the Vantages. to the point that 2 people can enjoy them at the same time. Of course, the Vantages have an even better sounding sweet spot and better bass extension; they should for 3 times the price!
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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Dreamer

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SILVER-7t

Posts: 1616

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:17 am

Location: Washington, NC

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:24 am

Re: My systems

Jag_97470 wrote:Thanks Dreamer for explaining that. I checked out the site and Yes, those are some Awesome speakers! Very interesting design. Do you have to run a sub? The spec seems a little high on the low side? Do you have good low end bass or do you need a Sub to compliment? Thanks


Believe me, the spec's and technical description on ML's website are only part of the picture. Until you really hear a pair of properly-set-up Logans, you really dont have any idea as to their real magic!

Obi would probably be better qualified to answer your question about bass response with the Source's since he actually owns a pair.

I have older ML's--Scenarios and Sequels, which are about 2 or 3 generations older than the Source. I have heard the Source in two or three different dealer's shops, but never heard them in a properly set-up and tweeked home setting. From my limited experience with the Source, I'd say that like most other ML's they have surprising bass extension, and should be bat enough in the bottom end for everyone but the most ardent bass-head. They ARE a little lean for HT applications though. In my newest setup, I'm using My Scenarios for the fronts in a 5.1 HT system, and I'm using a Velodyne F-1500b sub to give them that extra punch in the low end. My 2-channel system uses Sequels, and they do OK for most music, but I'm thinking of getting one or two Sunfire Super Junior subs or maybe an SVS to give them those last few Hz of ultra-low-end slam for rock, orchestral and chamber music.

But like I said, the MLs are "hybrid" electrostatic speakers, and most of them have surprisingly solid bass response. The newest generation of ML's have exceptionally smooth woofer-to-ESL panel integration. On some material, I can definitely hear the crossover point of my Sequels, but then again, they are 20-year-old 1st generation Martin Logans. The Source and Purity speakers are the newest in ML's mid-range speakers, and they have VERY smooth integration between the panels and the woofers. The Vista, Vantage, and Summit (and from what I've heard through the grapevine, the new Spites too) have AMAZINGLY smooth woofer-to-panel integration, The Vista, when driven by the right amps can sound as good as (or better than) speakers reaching into the $5k-$10k range, and they retail for around $3k a pair I think. I'm not sure how I feel about the Vantage--it's priced a little high for it's performance I think, but then again, it DOES sound better than just about any speaker in it's price point. The Summit and Spire are priced in that stratospheric "audiophile" range (around $10k/pair) but they are simply the finest-sounding speaker I've ever heard. Driven with the right amps, cables and front-end, the ML top-line speakers are simply unparalleled in my opinion. I've hear the new CLX is just mind-boggling, but I haven't had the pleasure to audition a pair yet. They are VERY hard to find--few dealers keep them in stock, and at over $12k/pair, I don't have a snowball's chance of owning a pair any time soon anyway. If I did hear them, it would probably just bum me out. I know that when I first heard a pair of the Summits, I was depressed for days, because I knew I couldn't even dream of owning them...

Of course, some folks don't like the Martin Logan sound, and they are definitely NOT for everyone. Electrostatic speakers have a sound that takes some getting used to if you're used to listening to cone speakers. Three major drawbacks to ML speakers, especially the high-end models, is that they need a pretty big room to really sound "right", they are VERY power-hungry and need high-current amps, and they are so precise and articulate that they will reveal EVERY deficiency in your system.

Ever time I move and set up my system in a new house, and get it all tweeked and adjusted, it sends me on another round of "upgrade-itis" because I'm listening to my rig with fresh ears in a new room, and I hear new things that need to be improved. Last time, I ended up with new CD player and DAC, and a bushel of new cables. This time, though, I'm on a much more modest budget, so I suppose I'll be limited to room treatments I can make myself, and logistical tweeks like placement of power cords and cables, etc. I'd like to get a new subwoofer, and I'll admit my analogue front end (turntable) is in SERIOUS need of replacement, but with grad school on the horizon, I can't be as free with my money as I was over the last few years.. :(
.....HT Rig • Sony STR-DG600 Receiver • Carver M-500t • Sony BDP-S1 • Sony DVP-NS3100ES • Apple Airport Express •
..............................• Martin Logan Scenarios, Logos • Realistic Minimus 7's • Velodyne F-1500b •

2 Ch. Rig • Carver C-4000t • Silver 7t's • Krell KAV-300i • Oppo DV-981HD • Benchmark DAC1-USB • MacBook Pro 17", iTunes •
......• Technics SL-1350 turntable with Sumiko headshell, leads, and Bluepoint cartridge • Martin Logan Sequels •

.........................................................-+-Click Here to see my system-+-
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megasat16

TFM-25

Posts: 357

Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:13 pm

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:35 am

Re: My systems

OBI,

Very Nice System! I always wanted a pair of ML in my room after I auditioned a pair of Clarity at the Magnolia Theater a year ago. But I went with box type speakers because I heard placement is a key issue to bring out the magic in the ML and it would probably cry in the room I have. So, I chose the less room picky Polk LSi25 at that time even though I think ML are a bit more airy than the Polk.

I was told the ML like breathing room in the back so I made a hard choice. Polk LSi25s are less airy than ML in the mids and highs so I've paired them with a little brighter amp. I wonder what amp you pair with your ML.
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OBI56

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SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:52 am

Location: You ... OFF MY PLANET!

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:20 am

Re: My systems

The amp is a Sunfire 300X2, the preamp is a Carver C-1 and the source is an Oppo DV-980h. Cables are MIT AVt3 on the speakers, MIT MT330S2 between amp and preamp and Canare Bis between source and preamp. As far as placement goes, the Sources don't require quite as much space as do the Vistas and Vantages do; in fact mine only required 25" from the back wall and 27" or so from the side wall as pictured to sound pretty damned good in my room (YMMV). I was lucky enough to have a dealer who had a crib sheet of speeker positions for each of the speaker models he had in stock and my figures wound up being only a couple of inches off his measurements, so I had a good starting point.
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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snarffydoggy

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Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:29 pm

Location: Fairhope, Alabama

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:07 am

Re: My systems

OBI, are you using the high current or the voltge outputs on the sunfire???
snarffydoggy
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OBI56

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SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:52 am

Location: You ... OFF MY PLANET!

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:01 pm

Re: My systems

snarffydoggy wrote:OBI, are you using the high current or the voltge outputs on the sunfire???


On your electric chair snarffydoggy???? 8) :D

Current taps as per the Sunfire instruction manual for Electrostatic speakers.
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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Jag_97470

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 3383

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:06 am

Location: Oregon

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:24 pm

Re: My systems

OBI56 wrote:
snarffydoggy wrote:OBI, are you using the high current or the voltge outputs on the sunfire???


On your electric chair snarffydoggy???? 8) :D

OMG! OBI Cracks me the hell up!!! That was laughing out of the chair Funny!!
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OBI56

User avatar

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 4964

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:52 am

Location: You ... OFF MY PLANET!

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:45 pm

Re: My systems

Jag_97470 wrote:
OBI56 wrote:
snarffydoggy wrote:OBI, are you using the high current or the voltge outputs on the sunfire???


On your electric chair snarffydoggy???? 8) :D

OMG! OBI Cracks me the hell up!!! That was laughing out of the chair Funny!!


That's odd Jag, usually electric chairs just make you convulse like crazy to the beat of the music, not fall off .... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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snarffydoggy

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SILVER-7t

Posts: 1114

Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:29 pm

Location: Fairhope, Alabama

Post Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:49 pm

Re: My systems

OK OBI, just don't do any arc welding when you hook em up :-" :-" :-" :-" :-" :-" :-"
snarffydoggy
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Dreamer

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SILVER-7t

Posts: 1616

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:17 am

Location: Washington, NC

Post Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:37 am

Re: My systems

snarffydoggy wrote:OK OBI, just don't do any arc welding when you hook em up :-" :-" :-" :-" :-" :-" :-"


See my story previously posted here about Arc-welding with Carver gear...

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2870&start=0&hilit=arc+welding
.....HT Rig • Sony STR-DG600 Receiver • Carver M-500t • Sony BDP-S1 • Sony DVP-NS3100ES • Apple Airport Express •
..............................• Martin Logan Scenarios, Logos • Realistic Minimus 7's • Velodyne F-1500b •

2 Ch. Rig • Carver C-4000t • Silver 7t's • Krell KAV-300i • Oppo DV-981HD • Benchmark DAC1-USB • MacBook Pro 17", iTunes •
......• Technics SL-1350 turntable with Sumiko headshell, leads, and Bluepoint cartridge • Martin Logan Sequels •

.........................................................-+-Click Here to see my system-+-
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