More SACD/CD Players

CD / SACD Discussion
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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by OBI56 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:57 pm

One small fact to remember here is that most of Carver's CD players were actually made by Yamaha. I don't think that it is wise to condemn an entire brand's products based on 1 or a few less than stellar products just as it isn't wise to glorify a brands products based on 1 exceptional procuct.
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.

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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by treitz3 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:57 pm

audiophile101 wrote:Even if the Jolida JD-100 has no small issues and sounded better than the JD-700, do you really think it could hang with the others in my list?
For redbook, yes I do. I haven't used or heard the JD700, but the JD100 doesn't have any of the issues you mentioned and the sound is great to my ears on my rig. Just be sure not to get one of the earlier models.

As for the Yammie? No, I haven't heard that exact model for some time but I do recall that i have not heard a "Natural Sound" Yamaha ever sound natural. "Restricted" would be a better word.
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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by audiophile101 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:06 pm

treitz3 wrote:
audiophile101 wrote:As for the Yammie? No, I haven't heard that exact model for some time but I do recall that i have not heard a "Natural Sound" Yamaha ever sound natural. "Restricted" would be a better word.
I hope that statment has no bearing on some of their speakers, otherwise you have never heard ANY of their NS beryllium stuff.

I'm going to assume you have possibly heard a lower line Yamaha CDX player. Most of the serious top end stuff wasn't even available here in the US to my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

Thanks.

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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by audiophile101 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:08 pm

OBI56 wrote:One small fact to remember here is that most of Carver's CD players were actually made by Yamaha. I don't think that it is wise to condemn an entire brand's products based on 1 or a few less than stellar products just as it isn't wise to glorify a brands products based on 1 exceptional procuct.
I think that would be more the case here with the Yamaha CD player.
Last edited by audiophile101 on Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by treitz3 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:22 pm

audiophile101 wrote:I hope that statement has no bearing on some of their speakers, otherwise you have never heard ANY of their NS beryllium stuff.
No, their speakers [the one's I've heard over the years] I actually liked. I haven't heard the Beryllium one's yet but based upon my experience with the Focal's and the beryllium tweeters, I'd venture to say that I'd like them as well.
audiophile101 wrote:I'm going to assume you have possibly heard a lower line Yamaha CDX player. Most of the serious top end stuff wasn't even available here in the US to my understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong please.
As far as the availability in the US concerning the high end models, I can not comment, as I don't really know. The one I heard that you referenced was at a friends house back when I was in VA hooked up to some Klipsh Cornwalls.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by Dreamer » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:36 pm

audiophile101 wrote:Ok, I've been doing a bit of reading on some CD and SACD players. Let me know what you think of the following?

Sony SCD-1 (SACD/CD)
Sony SCD-777ES (SACD/CD)
Marantz SA-1 (SACD/CD)
Yamaha CDX-10000 (CD)

Thoughts??
I'll chime in on this one, since I've heard every one of these CD players...

In their day, these were all pretty good players. The Sony SCD was the better of the two Sonys you've listed, especially for SACD.

The Marantz is a VERY respectable player, and also has VERY good SACD.

The Yamaha is OK. Not quite as good as the Sony 777 model, but then again, the Yammy IS a 20-year old piece of kit. Compared to other CD players from 1987, the Yammy was fantastic. Compared to high-end CD players from the mid 1990's, it's OK. Compared to high-end players of today, it's complete crap. And the fact that the Yammy is over 20 years old means that it's probably teetering on the edge of failure on several fronts--transport motor, laser, maybe even power supply. By the time you got it rebuilt and brought back up to spec, it would cost you another 2 grand, if you even COULD get the proper transport or laser mechanisms anymore...

If you're looking for a good RedBook/SACD player but you're trying to keep it under $500, go buy an Oppo and be done with it.

If you're primarily concerned with RedBook, and want to spend between $500 and $1000, get a Shenda Music Van. It's made by the same people who make the Jolida JD-100 in China, and looks, plays and functions the same, but is several hundred dollars cheaper, AND it has RCA and XLR outputs.

If you're willing to go just over $1000, get a Jolida JD-100A. The stock units are some of the best RedBook CD players out there in their price range, and can easily be hot-rodded to a level that rivals units costing several thousands of dollars...

The Jolida JD-700 is a DVD player or more acurately, a "universal player", as it plays DVDs, CD, and HDCD. It does not, however, play SACD, but that's an entirely different conversation that you DO NOT want to get into with the owners of Jolida, BELIEVE me. I made that mistake. The guy's a bit eccentric, to say the least. Designs great CD players and tube amps, but he's more dogmatic than an Inquisition-era Jesuit when it comes to SACD. Then again, he is the only Audio Aero dealer in the CD metro area, so he has a LOT of motivation to push $14,500 SACD players...

What I'm saying here is that if you want to buy used CD players to save some money, DO NOT buy some super-high-end unit from 20 years ago, unless it's a Wadia. They are just about the only manufacturers that you can still get parts for. And besides, the technology for DACs has progressed light-years in the last 20 years, so those high-end units from the 1980's and 1990's might have sounded great in their day, but by today's standards, many of them are not much better than current mid-fi units. Plus the old units, ESPECIALLY the high-end "consumer brands" are nearly impossible to get repair parts for.

If you'r etrying to save some dough but still get good sound, get a slightly used CD player or transport (less than 10 years old), and the best outboard DAC you can afford. You'll be MUCH happier. You won't have some super-prestigious brand-name museum piece, but you WILL have a digital front end that will last for another decade or more, and will be fixable and upgradeable.

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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by Dreamer » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:38 pm

deleted--double post...
Last edited by Dreamer on Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
.....HT Rig • Sony STR-DG600 Receiver • Carver M-500t • Sony BDP-S1 • Sony DVP-NS3100ES • Apple Airport Express •
..............................• Martin Logan Scenarios, Logos • Realistic Minimus 7's • Velodyne F-1500b •

2 Ch. Rig • Carver C-4000t • Silver 7t's • Krell KAV-300i • Oppo DV-981HD • Benchmark DAC1-USB • MacBook Pro 17", iTunes •
......• Technics SL-1350 turntable with Sumiko headshell, leads, and Bluepoint cartridge • Martin Logan Sequels •

.........................................................-+-Click Here to see my system-+-

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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by F1nut » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:42 pm

AGH! Forget the Yammie stuff.

Name a price point and whether you want SACD or not. Otherwise, this is pointless.
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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by audiophile101 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:52 pm

Very nice writeup Richard, Thank you.

I'm not wealthy but am not afraid to save up enough money to buy what I want. I'm not going to spend $6500 on a Marantz SA-7S1 even though it is suppose to be one of the best. It's simply WAY over my budget.

Ok, I'll dismiss the Yamaha since it is 21 years old and could in fact be trouble some to repair if something did happen. Let alone the possible problems on it being a Japanese 100v unit with other NON-USDM issues.

I am interested in balanced outputs also but the SCD-777ES is about half the price of the SCD-1. That makes me want to keep it in the list.

The Marantz SA-1 and Sony SCD-1 both sell used for around the same price and both get rave reviews overall. I'm going to rank them as a tie for now even though I think I would prefer the Marantz unit over the Sony due to what I hear about the sonics of both.

So, narrowing it down (from my original list):

Marantz SA-1 ($2000sih)
Sony SCD-777ES (No XLR) ($1000ish)

I'll go ahead and add the Jolida (Shenda Music Van) on there for now. Whats better the JD-100 or JD-100A? Are the newer ones or the older ones better?

What CD (transport?/DAC?/combo?) do you run Dreamer? Your E-stats have to be every bit as reveling as my Yamaha's and your experience with higher end CD units seems awesome. Let me know please.

Thanks.

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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by audiophile101 » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:56 pm

F1nut wrote:AGH! Forget the Yammie stuff.

Name a price point and whether you want SACD or not. Otherwise, this is pointless.
Based on the units mentioned, what I'm looking to spend? :-s $2000 or less (preferably less).

I don't have a SACD player, don't own a SACD and don't currently care about SACD. That doesn't mean I would not like to have the perk of being able to play SACD's. Like I posted earlier, treat this thread as if all these are CD players. Leave SACD out of the loop!

Thanks.

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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by BillD » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:12 am

You're missing something really special w/o SACD.
It should sound like it isn't there!
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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by TNRabbit » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:24 am

BillD wrote:You're missing something really special w/o SACD.
x2...
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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by treitz3 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:35 pm

Yeah, I have to agree with that. SACD is the format for audiophiles IMO. I have yet to hear a better format and I'm running SACD with just a run of the mill, unmodded Denon 2910 that's not really revered as being a great SACD player. Still, great sound.
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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by gdb » Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:54 pm

Okay , what would be a "good" CDP or SACD for someone who's only got limited funds and doesn't really possess a pair of "golden ears" like many here have. I keep reading about the major advances in CDP technology in the last 20yrs. and wonder if any are applied to the more modestly priced players out there? Would a used newer model be a good choice,bang for buck wise? I still think the sound from my ancient Pioneer Elite player sounds fantastic, I can't imagine what something that sounds a lot better would be like! I've never ventured into SACD and don't know if I ever will, so my second priority (after price) is the ablity to play garden variety CDs well, if it also can play SACDs that'll be a plus. I'm thinking $650 or less.Thanks for any suggestions offered ! :)

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Re: More SACD/CD Players

Post by audiophile101 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:46 pm

gdb wrote:Okay , what would be a "good" CDP or SACD for someone who's only got limited funds and doesn't really possess a pair of "golden ears" like many here have. I keep reading about the major advances in CDP technology in the last 20yrs. and wonder if any are applied to the more modestly priced players out there? Would a used newer model be a good choice,bang for buck wise? I still think the sound from my ancient Pioneer Elite player sounds fantastic, I can't imagine what something that sounds a lot better would be like! I've never ventured into SACD and don't know if I ever will, so my second priority (after price) is the ablity to play garden variety CDs well, if it also can play SACDs that'll be a plus. I'm thinking $650 or less.Thanks for any suggestions offered ! :)
If you read most of this thread you should probably assume they are all going to tell you to buy a used Jolida JD-100.

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