Whatever happened to the audiophile

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BillD
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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by BillD » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:03 am

Fast in the flats and slow in the corners a great car does not make.
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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by TNRabbit » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:28 am

At 1/4 the cost...
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Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
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OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.

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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by Snoop65 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:35 am

Here you go BillD, the original Nurburgring aka "Green Hell". About 14 miles long. The other map is the new smaller track formula 1 uses today.
nurburgring-map.jpg
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+Cayin CDT-17a =WOW!!!!!!

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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by BillD » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:37 am

Actually, I'm not into Ferraris or Corvettes. I like true sports cars like Porsches and Lotuses. Actually, I like all raodsters. My true love is the Austin Healey 3000.
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It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
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Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by HRDROKN » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:39 am

This is a great thread.... and back on topic.

I agree that digital played a part and I also feel that the whole surround sound venue took away from the audiophile... a 2-channel just wasn't the in thing anymore. I would guess with the the home theater crowd, that dynamics and effect are sought after, rather than accuracy and detail.

I have found that as my gear improves the quality of the recording is more apparent and as I jumped into the world of SACD, I've found that format has the same issues! Maybe SACD doesn't have as much of a problem with jazz or classical recordings, but certainly is an issue with rock! So my quest continues on with bit rates, sampling frequencies and what recording companies are actually striving to do it right.

I enjoy sitting in the center of my couch!

8)
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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by BillD » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:43 am

What you need to do is to shoot the sound engineer. He's the one making them sound that way.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by TNRabbit » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:53 am

Snoop65 wrote:
OconeeOrange wrote:
Snoop65 wrote:It's funny how since CD's first came out there has been a quest to make them sound more like analog. A lot of people fell into the initial "perfect sound" hype of cd.
Not true as in the day, CDs and the new CD players were so much better than most had heard, and many heard that.

In my opinion, there are more audiophiles now than at any other time. Back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, (well not so much the 80's) people were playing good tunes but the really good equipment was out of the reach of most. Still, we happily rocked on since we knew not. Still, now that you look back and play some of that old gear, it was OK, and not as lame as you might think. Beemer is bringing a classic, average receiver to CarverFest I just won on a charity auction. People will be surprised.
People fell in loved with the dynamics. When you really listened to early CD's and CD players they were harsh sounding. That's why you started seeing CD players and digital to analog converters with lots of oversampling to smooth out the sound. By the way OO where you been hiding the past few days? I missed you posting.
I'll have to disagree here. I think the issue with MOST CDs (early & current) was in the rush to production. On early ones, the worst cased scenario was they used the tapes made with RIAA equalization for LPs (which had to be adjusted as the cutter got closer to the center of the master disc) & you had WILDLY varying enhancement throughout the CD. Some were also made from 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation copies & compressed all to hell. You have the same compression issue with current crappy CDs, as well as folks who don't know or just don't give a shit about the recordings.

I've said it before, & I'll say it again (& again)--there are truly OUTSTANDING recordings done to CD/digital. I dare say most folks couldn't tell the difference on any medium (save clicks/pops on LP) if the recording process was held to a high standard. Anyone who says CDs sound "digital" is hearing a shitty recording. It wouldn't matter what medium it was done on....

*steps off soapbox*

8)
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.

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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by Chauss » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:00 pm

TNRabbit wrote:
BillD wrote:Neither can take a turn, though.
I don't know about that....A Corvette Z06 set a world record at Nuremberg Ring last year....
As did the Viper ACR just before the ZR1 came on the scene... and it did not beat the Vipers record by much! :D The new for 2012 Viper will certainly take it back again when it hits....maybe by 2013 for the ring record again.

Why do people think the Viper is only a drag car??? It is far from it....it is the closest you can get to a "street legal" race car. (meaning track car not drag car)

Watch this video - then tell me the Viper does not handle well. :lol:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/05/vide ... two-views/
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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by Chauss » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:04 pm

BillD wrote:Actually, I'm not into Ferraris or Corvettes. I like true sports cars like Porsches and Lotuses. Actually, I like all raodsters. My true love is the Austin Healey 3000.
Image
I like true sports cars too! :D

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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by Chauss » Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:12 pm

HRDROKN wrote:This is a great thread.... and back on topic.

I agree that digital played a part and I also feel that the whole surround sound venue took away from the audiophile... a 2-channel just wasn't the in thing anymore. I would guess with the the home theater crowd, that dynamics and effect are sought after, rather than accuracy and detail.

I have found that as my gear improves the quality of the recording is more apparent and as I jumped into the world of SACD, I've found that format has the same issues! Maybe SACD doesn't have as much of a problem with jazz or classical recordings, but certainly is an issue with rock! So my quest continues on with bit rates, sampling frequencies and what recording companies are actually striving to do it right.

I enjoy sitting in the center of my couch!

8)
HRDROKN-
Almost any Chesky or Telarc recording is always "top notch"....they may not record the genre that you like though- I guess that is why so many audiophiles turn to classical and jazz. There seems to be more great recordings in that genre than most any other. I purchased a used SACD player and got a couple of disks that I am very familiar with. The only big difference I see is the overall tone at the high and low end of the scales is accentuated more than on regular cd with a high quality DAC at least with my setup anyways plus the volume control has tons more gain on SACD. YMMV
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Post by treitz3 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:28 pm

TNRabbit wrote: Anyone who says CDs sound "digital" is hearing a shitty recording. It wouldn't matter what medium it was done on....
I respectfully disagree with you with this statement. I have heard stellar recordings on CD/SACD/XRCD and HDCD and the vinyl does not have what I refer too as the "digital edge". It just sounds more natural. Closer to the real thing, if you will. You can hear the difference...or at least I can, which is why I prefer vinyl. One example that comes to mind? Little Feat's Waiting for Columbus. Another? Donald Fagan's Morph the Cat.

Another great example would be what Jerry and I heard last year on my rig. We had both heard AC/DC's song/album before [the name of the song/album is escaping me...] thousands of times. We decided to put it on one night at CF and listen to the entire album. At one point in one of the songs, someone does this evil type laugh and both Jerry and I burst out laughing because it sounded rather funny. We looked at each other and at the same time asked "have you ever laughed at that before?". Both answers were "no". It was the first time we had both heard that album on vinyl though.

This is not meant to be a confrontational post. These were just things that instantly came to mind when I read your statement. There's many more examples I can think of but I don't really feel like typing right now. Maybe we can sit down at the 'fest and listen to the same album on different formats. If you are interested, I'll try to explain what it is I hear differently that describes what I would define as the "digital edge".
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by mbskeam » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:09 pm

I'll bring few of my 1st gen cd's.....
these will make your ears bleed
the Who's greatest hits comes to mind.....
it sounds like crap
No, back then the main thing in a young guy's mind was getting naked with a girl. That is the same today, not just for the young guys, but for the old ones.
oh so true...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by ekog » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:31 am

I think something may be getting missed here – when doing a direct comparison between an Album and a CD the problem is that you don’t know if the master recording’s for both were the same or if they were even recorded at the same time I remember when CDs first hit the market many of the record companies rushed to get albums onto CDs as there was a real demand for that format but many of the original recordings were misplaced, damaged, or just plain missing requiring the use of back up masters and other recordings to fill the need. I would guess that in most cases these recordings were different and would be considered inferior to the originals that were used for the records. The record companies didn’t really care about the quality as the CDs were already sold they just had to get the CDs to market so people could buy them.
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Re:

Post by TNRabbit » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:57 am

treitz3 wrote:
TNRabbit wrote: Anyone who says CDs sound "digital" is hearing a shitty recording. It wouldn't matter what medium it was done on....
I respectfully disagree with you with this statement. I have heard stellar recordings on CD/SACD/XRCD and HDCD and the vinyl does not have what I refer too as the "digital edge". It just sounds more natural. Closer to the real thing, if you will. You can hear the difference...or at least I can, which is why I prefer vinyl. One example that comes to mind? Little Feat's Waiting for Columbus. Another? Donald Fagan's Morph the Cat.

Another great example would be what Jerry and I heard last year on my rig. We had both heard AC/DC's song/album before [the name of the song/album is escaping me...] thousands of times. We decided to put it on one night at CF and listen to the entire album. At one point in one of the songs, someone does this evil type laugh and both Jerry and I burst out laughing because it sounded rather funny. We looked at each other and at the same time asked "have you ever laughed at that before?". Both answers were "no". It was the first time we had both heard that album on vinyl though.

This is not meant to be a confrontational post. These were just things that instantly came to mind when I read your statement. There's many more examples I can think of but I don't really feel like typing right now. Maybe we can sit down at the 'fest and listen to the same album on different formats. If you are interested, I'll try to explain what it is I hear differently that describes what I would define as the "digital edge".
Tom, I could make a digital recording FROM that LP & I guarantee you wouldn't be able to tell the difference....
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.

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Re: Whatever happened to the audiophile

Post by ekog » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:21 am

Chauss wrote:
TNRabbit wrote:
BillD wrote:Neither can take a turn, though.
I don't know about that....A Corvette Z06 set a world record at Nuremberg Ring last year....
As did the Viper ACR just before the ZR1 came on the scene... and it did not beat the Vipers record by much! :D The new for 2012 Viper will certainly take it back again when it hits....maybe by 2013 for the ring record again.

Why do people think the Viper is only a drag car??? It is far from it....it is the closest you can get to a "street legal" race car. (meaning track car not drag car)

Watch this video - then tell me the Viper does not handle well. :lol:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/05/vide ... two-views/
Awesome sexy car wish I could own one but probably better that I don’t as I would probably end up in jail for speeding or in a crash.
Main System Setup:
Pre: Carver C2 | Amp: Carver M-500t|Equilizer: Sansui SE99|Speakers: Polk SDA2’s
Source: Tuner: Carver TX-2| Phono: Technics SL-1210 MkII with a Ortofon VMS 20E Mk II| DirecTV DVR | Pioneer HLD-X9 Laserdisc player | Samsung DVD/VHS player

Second System Setup:
Receiver: Yamaha RXV867| Fronts: Klipsch F-30's |Sub: Klipsch SW-112
Source: Radio |Internet/Network | Sony CDP-70 CD player

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