No redemption on the Carversite

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by jvandyke_texas » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:47 am

I don't remember BobP saying anything bad about other members, so that can't be why he was sandboxed. I do know he was scrutinizing certain amp mods that cranked up rail voltage in the hopes of getting illusory higher power output. There are a couple of dangers in doing this.

1) If you're running during a brownout or low voltage line, the power choke (transformer) will dump power back through the primary into the power lines rather than unload through the secondary into the power supply caps. This can't be good for the power choke. The turns ratio has voltage operating assumptions. I know, I derived the equations for the magnetic power supply. I paid for my EE college tutition designing power converters so I have some experience in this area.

2) The amp has been designed with operating safety margins. Eroding those by cranking up the power supply rail voltage to get higher output power will stress components, increasing failure rate, and lowering reliability. If you don't crank the amp, it will just idle hotter. But loud playing with higher voltage rails will make the amp run hotter. It's great to replace the semiconductors with modern ones that have higher SOA, but you'll reduce the lifetime of the power supply choke, and as BobP notes, that is irreplaceable. It's a gradual thing. A little won't make much difference, but a lot is really bad.

I laughed when I read a member blaming BobP being in the Sandbox as the cause of the latest malcontention. That was years ago, and he hasn't been back since. So it's unrelated.
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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by F1nut » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:12 am

jvandyke_texas, thanks for posting that.

Despite what RobertR stated about Bob saying the mod wasn't an issue, I do recall him saying it was, which I also recall caused richie to blow yet another gasket. I also recall reading about a number of failures with those modded amps. Logic dictates that if you redline anything, it will break and break a lot quicker.

richie, I'm still looking forward to taking that walk down by the river, you lying piece of shit.
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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by hewlew1 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:38 am

And for the record, there is no polite way to liken someone to Hitler, or to tell them to phuk off....



Sometimes wrath is justifiable. But only the wisest among us know when it is appropriate.



That whole Hitler thing was obviously not appropriate...

The people over there still fail to acknowledge Rich's treatment of RobertR. Horray for King Richard is their attitude. Not a fucking backbone to be found. I guess my response was unjustified I should have just swallowed the lump in my throat and shit it out later.

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by jvandyke_texas » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:01 am

We both were at Carverfest that year, and I remember when the question was asked. Bob Carver said it OK with him to mod the amps. Specifically the question was about increasing power supply caps. Making those bigger will cause more of a grunt when the amp powers up, but won't make the "magnetic" amps run hotter. In classical amp design, too large power supply caps stress the power transformer and diode bridge because all the power is transferred during an even smaller window at the peak of the AC cycle. You could saturate the iron. I don't think anything was asked about turning up the rails and how much was "safe." I'd have to watch the video of the Q&A.

Bob Carver's answers were off the cuff and the questions general. It wasn't like the time I had dinner with him and brought schematics of my PL4000 and PL700B design fixes and he sat silent for 10 minutes at a time studying them.

Asking Bob Carver if you can mod an amp he sold 30 years ago is a lot like asking the person you bought your house from if it's OK for you to add an addition.

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by nooshinjohn » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:17 pm

jvandyke_texas wrote:We both were at Carverfest that year, and I remember when the question was asked. Bob Carver said it OK with him to mod the amps. Specifically the question was about increasing power supply caps. Making those bigger will cause more of a grunt when the amp powers up, but won't make the "magnetic" amps run hotter. In classical amp design, too large power supply caps stress the power transformer and diode bridge because all the power is transferred during an even smaller window at the peak of the AC cycle. You could saturate the iron. I don't think anything was asked about turning up the rails and how much was "safe." I'd have to watch the video of the Q&A.

Bob Carver's answers were off the cuff and the questions general. It wasn't like the time I had dinner with him and brought schematics of my PL4000 and PL700B design fixes and he sat silent for 10 minutes at a time studying them.

Asking Bob Carver if you can mod an amp he sold 30 years ago is a lot like asking the person you bought your house from if it's OK for you to add an addition.


Seems to me as I recollect things, that there were a few here that pointed the facts out to Rich when he was a member here and he did not take kindly to having any potential risks pointed out. He then went further to declare his amps as better than Bob's and that they had his full endorsement. It just happens to be the case here that we have a direct line to Bob, and a quick phone call(can't remember who placed it) and it was disclosed that although Bob agreed it was possible to do what Rich was suggesting, he even had some grave doubts as to the long term viability of the upgraded amp.

Sometime during all of this, (perhaps long after)this forum crashed for a day or two, maybe even three, and Rich's website was born, though it may have existed to promote his work and lacked a forum... (did RichP crash the site purposely so he could launch his own????-always wondered on that one) During this time, RichieP stole from this board, lied to it's members about his intentions, feigned a desire to unify the boards(by taking control of this one and folding it into his own) Stealing members away from here buy the promise of having a say in the new board and various other underhanded and overt means to manipulate the outcome to his advantage. Bottom line is that the whole thing smells of a power grab to drive sales of his Frankenamps, and as a means to silence his critics, of which there are MANY!

Perhaps his ego became way out of whack when he started to proclaim his Frankenstein of an amp as being better than Bob's. Personally I think they suck for this reason alone.... RichieP, if you are as good of an engineer as you proclaim yourself to be, design and build your own fucking amps, from the ground up. Make your very own circuits, power supplies and circuit boards... better yet, figure out how to do it using point-to-point wiring, design the case, and then get it tested by reputable third parties that will proclaim it the very best that money can buy! And then build a company and the business plan to market it to the masses.

Somebody please correct where I am wrong, but I do believe my general outline is pretty close to spot on.(that too could be wrong) :?
Bottom line Richie, do something to prove that you are better than Bob rather than LIE, CHEAT, STEAL and throw those that call you out on it under the bus. Stop standing on the backs of others success and create your very own. Fucking Putz!
Last edited by nooshinjohn on Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by jvandyke_texas » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:27 pm

I can only congratulate Rich who has spent so much time researching mods to upgrade amps with modern components to improve their sound and robustness. He then made the mods public to share with others, which I consider quite generous. Likely the proceeds from his amp rebuilding business finance Carversite, which the rest of us use free of charge.

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by nooshinjohn » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:30 pm

jvandyke_texas wrote:I can only congratulate Rich who has spent so much time researching mods to upgrade amps with modern components to improve their sound and robustness. He then made the mods public to share with others, which I consider quite generous. Likely the proceeds from his amp rebuilding business finance Carversite, which the rest of us use free of charge.

Yep, takes a real fucking genius to take somebody else's work and make a few mods. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


I promise you if that turd ever does something truly his own, he will fail miserably.

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by F1nut » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:45 pm

John, other than the reason for this site being down those few days, you nailed the rest of it perfectly!!!

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by trav0810 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:46 pm

jvandyke_texas wrote: Likely the proceeds from his amp rebuilding business finance Carversite, which the rest of us use free of charge.
Likely the THOUSANDS of dollars donated by members have financed Carversite.

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by jvandyke_texas » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:04 pm

Well, that raises a good point.
If you don't approve of the new policies on Carversite, which is a free service you can choose to use or not use,
you can weight your complaints with a $20 donation. Nothing in this world is truly "free", and you can't really expect to
enforce your will on how you think things should be or what others should do.

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by nooshinjohn » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:16 pm

jvandyke_texas wrote:Well, that raises a good point.
If you don't approve of the new policies on Carversite, which is a free service you can choose to use or not use,
you can weight your complaints with a $20 donation. Nothing in this world is truly "free", and you can't really expect to
enforce your will on how you think things should be or what others should do.

Oh the irony! Rich does exactly that, and to come into a thread that savages him and his arrogance to defend him and tell us we can pay 20 bucks and buy the right to complain??? How Rich is that.

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by jvandyke_texas » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:42 pm

Complaining is free. By contributing $ you are returning value.
I've read the new rules, and I laugh at them. Steve Jobs at one point wanted everyone at Apple to wear a uniform.
Disfunctional ideas have a way of not surviving long term.

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by elgrau » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:46 pm

nooshinjohn wrote: "Stop standing on the backs of other's success and create your very own."

Except EVERYONE "stands on the backs of others" for their success. That's how science and products evolve. No one creates something from nothing (except perhaps God). Bob certainly didn't invent SS amps....and I'm sure copied most of the basic circuts from previous SS amp designs. Lot's of innovation and improvements, yes; but far from "creating his very own" amps from scratch. Could say the same re Rich's mods. The stars only align for a very (lucky?) select few who have the talent, timing and resources to start their own successful company. e.g., try starting your own "better" passenger jet company today. Even if much better than Boeing or Airbus, you'll fail (and die trying). Mr. Tucker had the same problem with his better automobile design as well. Rich took the only realistic approach to getting his amp designs out there. Freely sharing them with other shows he's not doing these mods as a way to get rich! (no pun intended...).

I think I nailed it when I stated earlier that this hatred towards Rich is at least partially rooted in his mods of Bob's "sacred" creations (and then committing the "blashemy" - lol - of claiming them to be much better). Bob would most likely be the 1st to say BS on that and welcome any improvements to his amps. And I disagree that anyone (where "anyone" starts with those with a very extensive background in SS amp design and electronics) could take an existing amp design and substantally improve it. One thing you DO need for this is YEARS of free time and a whole bunch of patience (and a total understanding of the physics going on along with a good "ear" for what sounds right). Trial and error would never get you there (unless you have many 1000's of years to try); most would fail miserably and/or end up with something that is total crap or a "50-50" result: some say it sounds better, some say it sounds WORSE. I've yet to hear anyone say his amp mods sound or perform worse than its corresponding "baseline" Carver amp? Ok; lunch is over, back to work...lol.

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by Robert R » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:05 pm

Hi, JVD - I wasn’t talking about the time we met, at Fest # 2. The scene I refer to was just last year, at 2013 Carverfest. We had a good audio bench set up in Cabin 2, and Bob dropped in a lot. I think the modded amp session was the day he came to check out some allegedly exotic interconnect cable (I say allegedly because in a hour of tests he found that it had no properties other than it was a wire; the price, however, was certainly quite exotic). Anyhow, he and Greg were working together, and I was mostly just watching in the background, because I wanted those two to meet and interact. So Greg, who has done quite a few so-called Mark II conversions, showed Bob an M-1.0t that he'd just completed that upgrade on, and as far as I know that was the first time Bob ever saw one, though he'd doubtless heard in a general way that such things were around. He was quite interested, and absorbed the details as Greg ran down the list of changes. They bench tested it, and then we hooked it to a pair of AL-IIIs and tested it on music. The specs kicked ass, and so did the listening test. Greg asked Bob about any longevity problems, specifically detailing the arguments and theoretical objections that had been advanced by a few guys. And Bob blew all that away, saying that he thought there would be no such problems. He really liked the amp.

That’s what I saw and heard. I absolutely don't want to get into the middle of that argument, so I will not go farther with the subject. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass one way or the other about those amps. I don't have any and am not looking to get any. But I say let Richard the Turd peddle his amps, or do anything else - just get out of the forum business and let somebody run it that has at least some clue how to treat adults.

Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim - tyranny appears on all scales.

Robert

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Re: No redemption on the Carversite

Post by elgrau » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:16 pm

"Did you see my North Korea analogy?"

Yeah, I think it's a very good analogy that does a good job of summarizing thecarversite. Dictatorships rarely work. Markets and specialization beat (by a mile) what anyone individual thinks he knows re what's best for everyone else. Rich's "specialization" is SS amps; he should leave everything else to everyone else and stop trying to create a "utopia" like forum. Needs to ask Hitler and Kim what's-his-name in N. Korea how all that is working out...last I heard he was having babies drowned and people shot en-mass to solve the latest "lack of food" issue in his socialist utopia...

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