6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
Well after months of not finding the time, I finally found the time.
At Carverfest 2013 Snoop65 passed along a set of Siemens 12AX7
and Mike a set of Mullard 12AX7 for me to try out in my Sunfire Pre Phone Section.
All test where done using the same vinyl track in order.
1) High Hopes, David Gilmore, Live in Gdansk
2) Telegraph Rd, Dire Straits, Studio Albums 1978-1991
3) Private Investigation, Dire Straits, Studio Albums 1978-1991
4) Romeo & Juliet, Dire Straits, Studio Albums 1978-1991
5) Wish I Could, Norah Jones, Not Too Late
6) Not My friend, Norah Jones, Not Too Late
The Sunfire Pre set up:
Main preamp Board:
V1 Sovtek 6922 (tone turned off) V2 Valvo 6922 (left output) V3 Valvo 6922 (right output)
Phono Board:
V1, V2, V3, V6, V7, V8 all Amprex 6922 Gold Pin V4, V5 12AX7
Turntable:
VPI Classic c/w Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge.
The contenders:
Siemens 12AX7, Mullard 12AX7, Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7, EI 12AX7,
Psvane 12AX7, Telefunken 12AX7
In my system, in my bright room, with my ears the winners are:
1) Telefunken 12AX7, Open, Crisp, Great Vocals, Solid Bass.
2) EI 12AX7 (shocker), Very hard to tell apart from the Teles, vocals not as clean. Good bass.
3) Psvane 12AX7, Could not decide if this should be the 2rd or 3rd place. (nice tube)
4) Gold Lion 12AX7, Little compressed sound, lacking in sparkle, slightly muddy vocals
5) Mullard 12AX7, Compressed sound, vocals bassy, lacking mids
6) Seimens 12AX7, Vocals so cloudy, boomy bass sorry Snoop did not like this tube.
Chow Brian
At Carverfest 2013 Snoop65 passed along a set of Siemens 12AX7
and Mike a set of Mullard 12AX7 for me to try out in my Sunfire Pre Phone Section.
All test where done using the same vinyl track in order.
1) High Hopes, David Gilmore, Live in Gdansk
2) Telegraph Rd, Dire Straits, Studio Albums 1978-1991
3) Private Investigation, Dire Straits, Studio Albums 1978-1991
4) Romeo & Juliet, Dire Straits, Studio Albums 1978-1991
5) Wish I Could, Norah Jones, Not Too Late
6) Not My friend, Norah Jones, Not Too Late
The Sunfire Pre set up:
Main preamp Board:
V1 Sovtek 6922 (tone turned off) V2 Valvo 6922 (left output) V3 Valvo 6922 (right output)
Phono Board:
V1, V2, V3, V6, V7, V8 all Amprex 6922 Gold Pin V4, V5 12AX7
Turntable:
VPI Classic c/w Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge.
The contenders:
Siemens 12AX7, Mullard 12AX7, Genalex Gold Lion 12AX7, EI 12AX7,
Psvane 12AX7, Telefunken 12AX7
In my system, in my bright room, with my ears the winners are:
1) Telefunken 12AX7, Open, Crisp, Great Vocals, Solid Bass.
2) EI 12AX7 (shocker), Very hard to tell apart from the Teles, vocals not as clean. Good bass.
3) Psvane 12AX7, Could not decide if this should be the 2rd or 3rd place. (nice tube)
4) Gold Lion 12AX7, Little compressed sound, lacking in sparkle, slightly muddy vocals
5) Mullard 12AX7, Compressed sound, vocals bassy, lacking mids
6) Seimens 12AX7, Vocals so cloudy, boomy bass sorry Snoop did not like this tube.
Chow Brian
Last edited by BrianT on Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
VPI Classic Turntable (black)
Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge
Devialet 440PRO Mono Blocks
Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable
Aurender N100H Music Server
Audioquest Diamond USB cable
B&W 803D3 Speakers (black)
Auditorium 23 Speaker Cables
Raysonic CD-168 CDP (silver)
Carver TX11
Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge
Devialet 440PRO Mono Blocks
Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable
Aurender N100H Music Server
Audioquest Diamond USB cable
B&W 803D3 Speakers (black)
Auditorium 23 Speaker Cables
Raysonic CD-168 CDP (silver)
Carver TX11
- Zoot Horn
- SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
- Posts: 3562
- Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:26 pm
- Location: 4th Tower of Inverness
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
Brian,, the Ei's were made in Yugaslavia on the old Telefunken equipment. Hang on to them,, as they are not made anymore-- congrats!!!
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
thats why I pulled them out of my amps, when I put the tellys in it was like..... aaaawwwwwhhhhhh
it sounded way better.


it sounded way better.

Mbskeam
SILVER 7's
Amazing Line Source
2 SVS PB16 SUBS
#1 BLACK BEAUTY's made by the man, the myth, the legend Bob Carver
CARVER: TFM-75, TFM-45(3), SD/A-490T
SUNFIRE: Tube pre
WTL Amadeus GTA+DV DRT XV-1t
2 sets of ALS'3, set of SILVERS, set of PLATS
AUDIOCONTROL: phase coupled activator
KENWOOD: BASIC M2a (2)
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
The only thing I'll feel......will be the RECOIL
Necronomicon Ex-Mortis....... Klaatu Barada Nikkto
"We should seek the greatest value of our action"
SILVER 7's
Amazing Line Source
2 SVS PB16 SUBS
#1 BLACK BEAUTY's made by the man, the myth, the legend Bob Carver
CARVER: TFM-75, TFM-45(3), SD/A-490T
SUNFIRE: Tube pre
WTL Amadeus GTA+DV DRT XV-1t
2 sets of ALS'3, set of SILVERS, set of PLATS
AUDIOCONTROL: phase coupled activator
KENWOOD: BASIC M2a (2)
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
The only thing I'll feel......will be the RECOIL
Necronomicon Ex-Mortis....... Klaatu Barada Nikkto
"We should seek the greatest value of our action"
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
Not to at all lessen the value of the listed experience, but don't forget guys, that in different circuits with different voltages present, the opinions could vary somewhat. You can take away some learning but don't be surprised if in different equipment you could wind up ranking a bit differently. Though qualities tend to show through...
But thanks for taking the time to note your experiences Brian, and taking the time to post them. Good stuff!
Mark
But thanks for taking the time to note your experiences Brian, and taking the time to post them. Good stuff!
Mark
I was there "At the Fest!" Hope you were too!
- Snoop65
- SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
- Posts: 2691
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:04 pm
- Location: A galaxy far far away
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
X2! Good review Brian! And no apologizes needed! I'm happy you tried them.radioeng2 wrote:Not to at all lessen the value of the listed experience, but don't forget guys, that in different circuits with different voltages present, the opinions could vary somewhat. You can take away some learning but don't be surprised if in different equipment you could wind up ranking a bit differently. Though qualities tend to show through...
But thanks for taking the time to note your experiences Brian, and taking the time to post them. Good stuff!
Mark
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+Cayin CDT-17a =WOW!!!!!!
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
Thanks for the review Brian! Always interesting to hear results from other listeners.
At Carver Fest I run a completely different set of tubes than here at home. I guess room characteristics play a big roll in tube selection.
At Carver Fest I run a completely different set of tubes than here at home. I guess room characteristics play a big roll in tube selection.
TFM-75 serial #0001
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0002
Cherry/260wpc Mono Blocks
Lightstar Reference
Sunfire Series II 625x2
Carver 490t
OPPO-103
Lucas Labs CF-14
Sunfire Tube pre
DENON DP-62L TT
DUAL CS 5000 TT
DQ-20's
Tesla CF-15 speakers
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0002
Cherry/260wpc Mono Blocks
Lightstar Reference
Sunfire Series II 625x2
Carver 490t
OPPO-103
Lucas Labs CF-14
Sunfire Tube pre
DENON DP-62L TT
DUAL CS 5000 TT
DQ-20's
Tesla CF-15 speakers
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
Markradioeng2 wrote:Not to at all lessen the value of the listed experience, but don't forget guys, that in different circuits with different voltages present, the opinions could vary somewhat. You can take away some learning but don't be surprised if in different equipment you could wind up ranking a bit differently. Though qualities tend to show through...
Mark
I do tend to agree with you, thats why I said:
In my system, in my bright room, with my ears the winners are
Brian
VPI Classic Turntable (black)
Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge
Devialet 440PRO Mono Blocks
Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable
Aurender N100H Music Server
Audioquest Diamond USB cable
B&W 803D3 Speakers (black)
Auditorium 23 Speaker Cables
Raysonic CD-168 CDP (silver)
Carver TX11
Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge
Devialet 440PRO Mono Blocks
Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable
Aurender N100H Music Server
Audioquest Diamond USB cable
B&W 803D3 Speakers (black)
Auditorium 23 Speaker Cables
Raysonic CD-168 CDP (silver)
Carver TX11
- Chauss
- (pair of) SILVER-7t's
- Posts: 2180
- Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:35 pm
- Location: In my own little world.....
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
Awesome review Brian! Thanks for sharing.
Like Mr Wizard said-- electronics / circuits are a funny bird indeed. What works in one brand / setup, etc.....May not in another- Keep on keepin on, that's half the fun!

Like Mr Wizard said-- electronics / circuits are a funny bird indeed. What works in one brand / setup, etc.....May not in another- Keep on keepin on, that's half the fun!


Good sound—like good music, good wine and good fellowship—is meant to be shared.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" Albert Einstein
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
EricMRHP wrote:Thanks for the review Brian! Always interesting to hear results from other listeners.
At Carver Fest I run a completely different set of tubes than here at home. I guess room characteristics play a big roll in tube selection.
So what tubes where you running at CF13 and what do you run at home.
Brian
VPI Classic Turntable (black)
Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge
Devialet 440PRO Mono Blocks
Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable
Aurender N100H Music Server
Audioquest Diamond USB cable
B&W 803D3 Speakers (black)
Auditorium 23 Speaker Cables
Raysonic CD-168 CDP (silver)
Carver TX11
Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge
Devialet 440PRO Mono Blocks
Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable
Aurender N100H Music Server
Audioquest Diamond USB cable
B&W 803D3 Speakers (black)
Auditorium 23 Speaker Cables
Raysonic CD-168 CDP (silver)
Carver TX11
- Chauss
- (pair of) SILVER-7t's
- Posts: 2180
- Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:35 pm
- Location: In my own little world.....
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
Brian- inquiring minds want to know.....how does it compare to the LOMC portion of the Sunfire Pre and your LOMC "Caddilac" cartrige? 


Good sound—like good music, good wine and good fellowship—is meant to be shared.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" Albert Einstein
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
Brian, if you can run 5751's in your pre, the late '50's Sylvania triple mica, black plate, D getter are to die for. They have thin yellow print. Do not get the later version with the green print.
Political Correctness...defined
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
My Sunfire pre does not have a phono section, so Im only talking about V1, V2, and V3. At home in V1 my favorite is a 1959 Mullard wrinkle glass that has a real nice open topend and in V2 and V3 I use either a pair of Telefunken CCa's or some 1962 Mullard wrinkle glass.BrianT wrote:EricMRHP wrote:Thanks for the review Brian! Always interesting to hear results from other listeners.
At Carver Fest I run a completely different set of tubes than here at home. I guess room characteristics play a big roll in tube selection.
So what tubes where you running at CF13 and what do you run at home.
Brian
At CF I used a Valvo E188cc in V1 and a pair of 1957 Herleen Holland D-getter in V2 and V3. These tubes have a much warmer tone that seemed to work better with all that glass and hard wood floor.
Im a toob nut so if I run across a real bright recording Ill tone it down or a muffled recording Ill brighten it up with toob changes

TFM-75 serial #0001
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0002
Cherry/260wpc Mono Blocks
Lightstar Reference
Sunfire Series II 625x2
Carver 490t
OPPO-103
Lucas Labs CF-14
Sunfire Tube pre
DENON DP-62L TT
DUAL CS 5000 TT
DQ-20's
Tesla CF-15 speakers
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0002
Cherry/260wpc Mono Blocks
Lightstar Reference
Sunfire Series II 625x2
Carver 490t
OPPO-103
Lucas Labs CF-14
Sunfire Tube pre
DENON DP-62L TT
DUAL CS 5000 TT
DQ-20's
Tesla CF-15 speakers
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65
- Snoop65
- SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
- Posts: 2691
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:04 pm
- Location: A galaxy far far away
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
Telefunken Cca's? We have to talk!MRHP wrote:My Sunfire pre does not have a phono section, so Im only talking about V1, V2, and V3. At home in V1 my favorite is a 1959 Mullard wrinkle glass that has a real nice open topend and in V2 and V3 I use either a pair of Telefunken CCa's or some 1962 Mullard wrinkle glass.BrianT wrote:EricMRHP wrote:Thanks for the review Brian! Always interesting to hear results from other listeners.
At Carver Fest I run a completely different set of tubes than here at home. I guess room characteristics play a big roll in tube selection.
So what tubes where you running at CF13 and what do you run at home.
Brian
At CF I used a Valvo E188cc in V1 and a pair of 1957 Herleen Holland D-getter in V2 and V3. These tubes have a much warmer tone that seemed to work better with all that glass and hard wood floor.
Im a toob nut so if I run across a real bright recording Ill tone it down or a muffled recording Ill brighten it up with toob changes

CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+Cayin CDT-17a =WOW!!!!!!
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre





TFM-75 serial #0001
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0002
Cherry/260wpc Mono Blocks
Lightstar Reference
Sunfire Series II 625x2
Carver 490t
OPPO-103
Lucas Labs CF-14
Sunfire Tube pre
DENON DP-62L TT
DUAL CS 5000 TT
DQ-20's
Tesla CF-15 speakers
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0002
Cherry/260wpc Mono Blocks
Lightstar Reference
Sunfire Series II 625x2
Carver 490t
OPPO-103
Lucas Labs CF-14
Sunfire Tube pre
DENON DP-62L TT
DUAL CS 5000 TT
DQ-20's
Tesla CF-15 speakers
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65
- Magnaryder
- SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
- Posts: 2992
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:00 am
- Location: Bucyrus, Ohio
Re: 6 x 12AX7 in my Sunfire Pre
hey Brian, how 'bout some good pics of the modded phono board?
ray
ray
Magnaryder
Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
"Racing is life, the rest of the time you're just sitting around."-Steve McQueen
Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
"Racing is life, the rest of the time you're just sitting around."-Steve McQueen