FAQ  •  Register   •  Gallery •  Login

It is currently Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:29 am

re-wire Amazing Speakers

<<

Breaking Glass

M-400t CUBE

Posts: 113

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Location: Missouri

Post Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:13 pm

re-wire Amazing Speakers

I have a set of Amazing Originals and am upgrading the ribbons (thanks to Toy Maker making me a set of 60”) While I am at it I would like to rewire the speakers with better wire. Any suggestions on what wire is best? Also any suggestions on good solder and a soldering iron for this job? Thanks!
<<

BillD

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 7295

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:29 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

I suppose you are talking mostly of the woofers on originals. I would do two things. The woofers on the Amazings I've seen (Reese's) were wired parallel first and then back into series. I would reverse that to make them go series first then back to parallel. That way, the two pair go to 8R then back to 4R, rather than go to 2R and back to 4R. Then, I would use better hookup wire. Perhaps 12 gauge. Something like THIS
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
<<

frankieD

Frankie The Mouth

Posts: 2466

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:38 pm

Location: So Cal

Post Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:01 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

Just to clear up some misconceptions about the wiring in the Amazings.

When Bob was aked why he used "cheap" wire, was it to save a few cents? He said no that is not it at all, that when you design a circuit everything in it is taken into consideration. This wire for example may provide some resistance within the circuit and the resistors in the circuit will reflect this.

In other words the designer uses what he uses to achieve a final result. Changing the wires on the woofers for example to heavy guage wire will indeed change the sound & if you like the change...fine... but it is NOT what the designer intended.

After Bob explained I lost all desire to fuck with his design. My silvers sound great with the thin wire.

Just another point of view taken from the designer.
<<

BillD

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 7295

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

He still wired them wrong. Unless he liked "phasey". The way they're wired, one pair of speakers will react way more than the other two.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
<<

erniejade1

User avatar

TFM-35

Posts: 493

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:17 pm

Location: Bolingbrook IL

Post Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:16 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

? they are wired wrong from the factory?


I should open up mine and take a look...?
<<

frankieD

Frankie The Mouth

Posts: 2466

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:38 pm

Location: So Cal

Post Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:38 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

BillD wrote:He still wired them wrong. Unless he liked "phasey". The way they're wired, one pair of speakers will react way more than the other two.


Bill you may be right (you usually are) but I wasn't referring to the series/parallel wiring but rather to the guage of the wire.

Some people believe that thin guage wire used on the woofers was to save cost and Bob was adamant that that was not the reason.

I have silvers and the wiring was worked out by the time they were made.

Frank.
<<

Toy Maker

User avatar

Puppet Master

Posts: 6498

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:26 am

Post Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:40 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

When I opened up the AL-III's, they also have chincy 18ga wire going to them.

It has to be something to do with the overall impedance??
The ribbon is about 4 Ohms, and the sub is 4 Ohms... in parallel, they should be 2 Ohm speakers.
In series, they should be 8 Ohm speakers, but in the end, they are still 6 Ohms.

I'm guessing, they took a 2 Ohm speaker (wiring the driver parallel), and added another 3-4 Ohms in there between the passive crossover parts, and the light wiring, to get up back up to 6 Ohms.
I don't have the wiring diagram right in front of me, but how else could they have done it ??
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it... because nobody else will.

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
<<

jerryj12

User avatar

TFM-6cb

Posts: 206

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:30 am

Location: Atlanta, Area

Post Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:03 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

BillD wrote:I suppose you are talking mostly of the woofers on originals. I would do two things. The woofers on the Amazings I've seen (Reese's) were wired parallel first and then back into series. I would reverse that to make them go series first then back to parallel. That way, the two pair go to 8R then back to 4R, rather than go to 2R and back to 4R. Then, I would use better hookup wire. Perhaps 12 gauge. Something like THIS


Bill, would you mind going into a little more detail about the wiring. I don't quite understand what you are saying. I rewired my amazing s and it looked like something was not quite right. :?

I just replaced 1 wire at a time so as not to get them mixed up.

Is there a schematic anywhere of the way you are suggesting to wire them?

Thanks
<<

Zoot Horn

User avatar

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 3236

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:26 pm

Location: 4th Tower of Inverness

Post Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:44 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

Good point Jerry,, FWIW the speakers the Jerry has are originals, that had the "field" upgrade,which consisted of new crossovers and installed 60" ribbons,,,while retaining the original flat faced "honeycomb" drivers.Hi-Fi Buys IIRC.
<<

Eddie

User avatar

Eddie The Knife

Posts: 1710

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 7:03 pm

Location: Valhalla! Expect me when you see me!

Post Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:17 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

Here!!!

http://arafel.org/audio/als/amazing_service.pdf

jerryj12 wrote:
BillD wrote:I suppose you are talking mostly of the woofers on originals. I would do two things. The woofers on the Amazings I've seen (Reese's) were wired parallel first and then back into series. I would reverse that to make them go series first then back to parallel. That way, the two pair go to 8R then back to 4R, rather than go to 2R and back to 4R. Then, I would use better hookup wire. Perhaps 12 gauge. Something like THIS


Bill, would you mind going into a little more detail about the wiring. I don't quite understand what you are saying. I rewired my amazing s and it looked like something was not quite right. :?

I just replaced 1 wire at a time so as not to get them mixed up.

Is there a schematic anywhere of the way you are suggesting to wire them?

Thanks
Good judgment comes from experience,but experience usually comes from bad judgment.

The best thing is to learn from others that have mastered the one thing you need to learn!

I would tell you to go to hell but I already work there and I don't want to see your ugly face every day!
<<

BillD

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 7295

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

Well, IIRC, when I looked at Reese's Amazings, they were wired as below.

Amazing Woofers parallel.jpg
Amazing Woofers parallel.jpg (24.8 KiB) Viewed 405 times


As you can see, the top two and the bottom two are wired in parallel. Two 4 Ohm loads in parallel yield a two Ohm load. These two are then wired together in series to get a 4 Ohm load.

What I am suggesting (and what I would like to do to Reese's next time I'm there) is to change the wiring to the following.

Amazing Woofers.jpg
Amazing Woofers.jpg (24.09 KiB) Viewed 405 times


In this arrangement, the top and bottom two are wired in series giving 8 Ohms, and then the two pairs are wired in parallel to yield the 4 Ohm load. This configuration will better balance the load between the top and the bottom. Reese's woofers noticeably produce more excursion from the bottom two woofers than the top two.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
<<

Scarabeo

User avatar

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 2648

Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:05 pm

Post Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:01 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

BillD that must be for the ORIGINALS, My Plat's are wired the same as Diagram 1 but there drivers are 16 ohm so would us Plat guys be better off re-doing the wiring as show in Diagram "2" or just the Honeycomb lower ohm Driver?
BillD, You will be forever with us! RIP until we meet again on the other side...
<<

BillD

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 7295

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:49 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

No, you Plat guys have 16 Ohm speakers. They should be all in series like:

Platinum Woofers.jpg
Platinum Woofers.jpg (21.47 KiB) Viewed 395 times
.

WHhat Reese had were Originals (honeycomb woofers) upgraded to Plats.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
<<

jerryj12

User avatar

TFM-6cb

Posts: 206

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:30 am

Location: Atlanta, Area

Post Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

BillD wrote:
WHhat Reese had were Originals (honeycomb woofers) upgraded to Plats.


Hey BillD,
Thats what I have as well.
I think I will try the way you suggest this weekend.
I will let you know how it turns out.
It has always seemed like 2 of the woofers were doing more of the work. :D
<<

BillD

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 7295

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:25 pm

Re: re-wire Amazing Speakers

Well, I was confused that Reese's were wired that way. If yours are too, it might be something that could be taken up with Bob. The schematic doesn't describe the woofer hookup in any way.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
Next

Return to Carver Speakers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Powered by phpBB © 2011 phpBB Group.