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Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:50 pm
by Don
elshout wrote:Thanks for your responses Toy Maker. At least you were polite in your responses. Some of the members are condescending. However, I can’t imagine the AL-VI’s would outperform my Mark IV Platinums. The ribbons are smaller and only one woofer.

F1nut – I am sure there are some speakers out there that outperform the Carvers, I was hoping to identify which ones.

I was hoping there were a few of you who have compared speakers and heard some that are superior to the Platinums.

As most on this forum like to upgrade, I would like to upgrade to a larger, quality pair of speakers. I like it clear and loud. I really like the Platinums, but I would feel I downgraded if the replacements had less bass or less “clear” volume than the Platinums.

Has anyone heard the Legacy Focus or the Tyler Acoustics Woodmere?
Scott,

I had the Legacy Focus for about 8 years. I also have a pair of Plat 4's that I bought new in the early to mid 90's. Focus are very nice speakers with plenty of low end grunt. They have gone through many upgrades over the years. The Newer Focus are more transparent and open than my originals. I would vascillate between the Plat's and the Focus as my mains. They both had their strongpoints. The Focus were a little brighter in the upper & midrange frequencies and had a tad more bass. I preferred the Plat's in the midrange, soundstage and vocals. Both speakers can play at extreme volume levels. Focus are much more efficient and require less juice to make them sing.

Recently traded my Focus for new Legacy Whisper XD's. \:D/ \:D/ PM me if interested in more details.

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:59 pm
by kingman
once you listen to ribbon type speakers you are ruined....
...I can testify to that truth....the clarity is astounding. The sound stage transparent. You would be hard pressed to find better sounding speakers at any comparable price.

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:25 pm
by Don
kingman wrote:
once you listen to ribbon type speakers you are ruined....
...I can testify to that truth....the clarity is astounding. The sound stage transparent. You would be hard pressed to find better sounding speakers at any comparable price.

Agree with Wayne. Be prepared to take out your wallet because the law of diminishing returns does play a very significant role. The Plat's are a classic design that has stood the test of time IMHO.

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:31 pm
by treitz3
elshout wrote:Has anyone heard the Legacy Focus or the Tyler Acoustics Woodmere?
Hello Scott, Tom here. While I have not heard the Tyler Acoustics Woodmere yet, I do own a pair of Tyler Acoustics Linbrooks, Signature Series. A buddy of mine has the super towers.

We both have had [basically] the same type of rig running up until recently. The main difference is that he uses SS amplification while I run primarily all tubed gear. Generally, in the past, no matter the gear we ran, it all boiled down to basically just a different flavor of a sonic signature. Nothing so dramatic that you would like one rig more than the other, just different flavors.

Oh, my manners....welcome to the forum.

I will tell you this. The Woodmere's are on my short list of things to own and when I get them, they will be my last speaker. I am a big fan of the Seas Millennium Tweeter [which is in the Linbrooks]. One step down, or "up" if you judge by price only, is the Revelator tweeter. That tweeter was in my last set of Tyler Acoustic speakers, the 7U's. That's the tweeter that got me hooked on Ty's speakers. I attended an audio event down in GA where they [7U's] were set up in a rather large living room. You could actually see BB King walking across the living room and you didn't even need to close your eyes. That's when I was hooked.

This is the first time I've admitted this on a public forum but the one gripe I have with the Linbrooks is that the lower registers? Well, they need to be up top as well as where they are located. That's why I want the Woodmere's. I already have everything the Woodmere's have to offer, and more. Hear me out. I have the Millenium tweeters, 4-7" Seas magnesium mid-ranges [2 per speaker] and 4-8.5" Seas aluminum cone woofers [2 per speaker]. All of which, the Woodmere's have but the Woodmere's have the 10" woofer and not the 8.5". BUT, in lieu of, I have added the 10" Seas aluminum cone woofers enclosed in custom built sub woofers [by Ty], each with a 1000w amp. It sounds pretty damn good and offers hours on end of sheer listening pleasure.

Am I satisfied? Nope. Is it better than most systems I have heard to date? Yep. For many reasons I may get into later, when time permits.

Allow me to go back to my buddy's rig. What he did was remove the crossover from the speaker altogether [which is an option on the Woodmere], upgraded all of the crossover components with the exception of the inductors, lined the enclosure with no Rez and added diffraction be gone. Remember when I mentioned that we had about the same rig, just different flavors? Not any more. Holy crap, my rig sounds like ass now. Before he did these things, both of are rigs were completely enjoyable and flat out wonderful to listen too.

Keep in mind, he's got a "lower" speaker than the Linbrook's if you look at the lineup of Ty's speakers. I'll be the first to tell you that his speakers have surpassed mine ten-fold and now my rig sounds like something you would purchase at K-Mart. EVERYTHING about the music, the feeling, the envelopment, the weight, the dynamics, the clarity, the impact, texture, focus, transients, imaging, detail, effective power, presence, punch, mid-range, atmosphere, well....I could go on for a while about this. Basically, it was as if he had gone from a 20 watt receiver to a 200 watt tube amp, switched from a CDP to an SACD player and purchased all MIT cabling all in one shot. Thing is, he didn't change a damn thing except the speaker.

I'm gonna do the same thing with the Linbrook's until I can sell what I have and get the Woodmere's to do the same exact thing. I'll tell you this....the ONLY speaker I would have traded "up" for was the Wilson Sophia [16K speaker]. After hearing his speakers? Screw the Wilson's.

For the record, he's got less money in his speakers, with all of the upgrades than I do just in my Linbrooks. It's also a lot less than 12K. You could even purchase 2 killer subs, a Velodyne SMS-1 or 2 and a shitload more music for your collection and still have plenty of $$$ leftover.

The Linbrook's...
Image

The super towers...
Image

The Woodmere's...
Image

It all depends on what your tastes are, how tuned your ears are to the subtleties and how loud you prefer your music. Of course, if you know how to tweak things? That will definitely help. There is the Cerwin-Vega crowd and then there are folks that appreciate the accurate reproduction of music.

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:09 am
by Don
Scott,

I just posted a link to an upcoming audio show in Atlanta. Lots of big names there for you to get a listen. Not ideal setting compared to properly set up home environment. However, should stir your interst. Noticed Legacy Audio and Tyler will both be there, along with a slew of others.

Also, with the economy in the dumps, there is no better place to cut a deal on new ear candy than at an audio show, especially if you are dealing with the owner of the company.

Link to show from thread I just posted: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13587

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:58 am
by Scarabeo
This is a great post! I really need to hear those now, My Door speakers are the Bee's knees but I may have the only set ever made were 10K new and are better then my Plat's or anything I have heard but its been some time since I played with infinity's IRS.
treitz3 wrote:
elshout wrote:Has anyone heard the Legacy Focus or the Tyler Acoustics Woodmere?
Hello Scott, Tom here. While I have not heard the Tyler Acoustics Woodmere yet, I do own a pair of Tyler Acoustics Linbrooks, Signature Series. A buddy of mine has the super towers.

We both have had [basically] the same type of rig running up until recently. The main difference is that he uses SS amplification while I run primarily all tubed gear. Generally, in the past, no matter the gear we ran, it all boiled down to basically just a different flavor of a sonic signature. Nothing so dramatic that you would like one rig more than the other, just different flavors.

Oh, my manners....welcome to the forum.

I will tell you this. The Woodmere's are on my short list of things to own and when I get them, they will be my last speaker. I am a big fan of the Seas Millennium Tweeter [which is in the Linbrooks]. One step down, or "up" if you judge by price only, is the Revelator tweeter. That tweeter was in my last set of Tyler Acoustic speakers, the 7U's. That's the tweeter that got me hooked on Ty's speakers. I attended an audio event down in GA where they [7U's] were set up in a rather large living room. You could actually see BB King walking across the living room and you didn't even need to close your eyes. That's when I was hooked.

This is the first time I've admitted this on a public forum but the one gripe I have with the Linbrooks is that the lower registers? Well, they need to be up top as well as where they are located. That's why I want the Woodmere's. I already have everything the Woodmere's have to offer, and more. Hear me out. I have the Millenium tweeters, 4-7" Seas magnesium mid-ranges [2 per speaker] and 4-8.5" Seas aluminum cone woofers [2 per speaker]. All of which, the Woodmere's have but the Woodmere's have the 10" woofer and not the 8.5". BUT, in lieu of, I have added the 10" Seas aluminum cone woofers enclosed in custom built sub woofers [by Ty], each with a 1000w amp. It sounds pretty damn good and offers hours on end of sheer listening pleasure.

Am I satisfied? Nope. Is it better than most systems I have heard to date? Yep. For many reasons I may get into later, when time permits.

Allow me to go back to my buddy's rig. What he did was remove the crossover from the speaker altogether [which is an option on the Woodmere], upgraded all of the crossover components with the exception of the inductors, lined the enclosure with no Rez and added diffraction be gone. Remember when I mentioned that we had about the same rig, just different flavors? Not any more. Holy crap, my rig sounds like ass now. Before he did these things, both of are rigs were completely enjoyable and flat out wonderful to listen too.

Keep in mind, he's got a "lower" speaker than the Linbrook's if you look at the lineup of Ty's speakers. I'll be the first to tell you that his speakers have surpassed mine ten-fold and now my rig sounds like something you would purchase at K-Mart. EVERYTHING about the music, the feeling, the envelopment, the weight, the dynamics, the clarity, the impact, texture, focus, transients, imaging, detail, effective power, presence, punch, mid-range, atmosphere, well....I could go on for a while about this. Basically, it was as if he had gone from a 20 watt receiver to a 200 watt tube amp, switched from a CDP to an SACD player and purchased all MIT cabling all in one shot. Thing is, he didn't change a damn thing except the speaker.

I'm gonna do the same thing with the Linbrook's until I can sell what I have and get the Woodmere's to do the same exact thing. I'll tell you this....the ONLY speaker I would have traded "up" for was the Wilson Sophia [16K speaker]. After hearing his speakers? Screw the Wilson's.

For the record, he's got less money in his speakers, with all of the upgrades than I do just in my Linbrooks. It's also a lot less than 12K. You could even purchase 2 killer subs, a Velodyne SMS-1 or 2 and a shitload more music for your collection and still have plenty of $$$ leftover.

The Linbrook's...
Image

The super towers...
Image

The Woodmere's...
Image

It all depends on what your tastes are, how tuned your ears are to the subtleties and how loud you prefer your music. Of course, if you know how to tweak things? That will definitely help. There is the Cerwin-Vega crowd and then there are folks that appreciate the accurate reproduction of music.

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:52 pm
by elshout
Thanks Tom and Don. That is what I was looking for. Some experienced opinions.

Now, I have some listening and thinking to do. :-k

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:10 pm
by treitz3
You wouldn't be on the East coast, would you? Reason I ask, is that we have a rather special get-together happening soon that I know you will be interested in attending. It will happen in Charlotte, NC.

Then there's the Atlanta gig.....I might could have something you want to hear from Ty there....if we know you will be attending.

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:55 am
by Toy Maker
If you have, and like ribbons, I think it will be very hard for you to find any speaker that will sound "better" to you.
Thanks for your responses Toy Maker. At least you were polite in your responses. Some of the members are condescending. However, I can’t imagine the AL-VI’s would outperform my Mark IV Platinums. The ribbons are smaller and only one woofer.
Don't be fooled by their size, or by the fact that they only have 1 woofer.
The Originals, and Plats pretty much wasted 2 feet of ribbon, above and below the listener. You are really only listening to the 24-36" around your ears.
The single woofer, is 10x the quality of the woofers Carver ever used. A sealed enclosure vs. Free-air drivers are a world apart.

My father sold his minty Platinums to upgrade to my AL-V speakers, and now he's thinking about going to the AL-VI's.
In my opinion, I prefer the AL-VI's over the 5's
Wish you could listen to them, pretty sure you'd fall in love

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:28 am
by jjptkd
How much for a pair of VI's ?

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:41 am
by engtaz
Don wrote:
Toy Maker wrote:That's true... I kinda forgot about the AL-VI's... ](*,)
From what I heard, they ain't too shitty :lol: All the AL-III highs, and twice the bass!!
For $3,800 you too could have a set, NEW.
Image

Scott,

You really need to give these a listen. Very good value IMHO, plenty of bass, wonderful soundstage and they do play clean and loud. Anyone that attended Carverfest this past year can attest. If in the market for new speakers, PM Toymaker. Also Engtaz (Roy) has a pair, so you can also get his thoughts.

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:15 am
by Scarabeo
Toy Maker wrote: The Originals, and Plats pretty much wasted 2 feet of ribbon, above and below the listener. You are really only listening to the 24-36" around your ears.
The single woofer, is 10x the quality of the woofers Carver ever used. A sealed enclosure vs. Free-air drivers are a world apart.
James, in no way do I want to Question that the AL 6's sound Dreamy or of course the woofers sound is far beyond any of the past and surly there worth every penny and a GREAT speaker however the statement of wasted ribbon has me in a bit of shock :shock: in theory I am sure your correct however I have done many many side by side listening test using ribbon only and switching from a 48 (AL III) and a 60 (PLAT) Ribbon, in some cases I also added my Sunfire Sub. Any how The 60 in every case had a smoother sound to all listeners and a larger sound field??? This was done with a active X-over so the playing field was fair. Everything is 100% the same only 12 inches longer on a 60 inch over 48"

We all know how Good the CRM-2's are with a 8 inch Ribbon - I like them as much as the AL III's and better for there size! Still 8 inch ribbon or 48 inch ribbon or even 30 Ribbon to my ears and many around me the 60 is the (MAGIC SIZE) for smooth rich mids and a true LARGE sound field that nothing smaller can match. Am I crazy here or should I not hear that extra 12 inches as I seem to clearly be able too and how its affected from the floor and 9 foot ceiling and everything! Again I love the 8 inch Ribbon, well all Ribbons really but the 60 inch to me is truly the MAGIC size. It can't be all in my head like a women thinking about John Holmes....

In my mind I thought it over a thousand times and I only come up with the added mass has some play in the over all sound in its pull from top to bottom but still ????

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:12 am
by TNRabbit
Then I guess the twenty foot tall ribbon they made a few years ago causes EARgasms....

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:50 am
by Toy Maker
Scarabeo wrote:
Toy Maker wrote: The Originals, and Plats pretty much wasted 2 feet of ribbon, above and below the listener. You are really only listening to the 24-36" around your ears.
The single woofer, is 10x the quality of the woofers Carver ever used. A sealed enclosure vs. Free-air drivers are a world apart.
James, in no way do I want to Question that the AL 6's sound Dreamy or of course the woofers sound is far beyond any of the past and surly there worth every penny and a GREAT speaker however the statement of wasted ribbon has me in a bit of shock :shock: in theory I am sure your correct however I have done many many side by side listening test using ribbon only and switching from a 48 (AL III) and a 60 (PLAT) Ribbon, in some cases I also added my Sunfire Sub. Any how The 60 in every case had a smoother sound to all listeners and a larger sound field??? This was done with a active X-over so the playing field was fair. Everything is 100% the same only 12 inches longer on a 60 inch over 48"

We all know how Good the CRM-2's are with a 8 inch Ribbon - I like them as much as the AL III's and better for there size! Still 8 inch ribbon or 48 inch ribbon or even 30 Ribbon to my ears and many around me the 60 is the (MAGIC SIZE) for smooth rich mids and a true LARGE sound field that nothing smaller can match. Am I crazy here or should I not hear that extra 12 inches as I seem to clearly be able too and how its affected from the floor and 9 foot ceiling and everything! Again I love the 8 inch Ribbon, well all Ribbons really but the 60 inch to me is truly the MAGIC size. It can't be all in my head like a women thinking about John Holmes....

In my mind I thought it over a thousand times and I only come up with the added mass has some play in the over all sound in its pull from top to bottom but still ????


I would expect, what you are hearing is mostly the different "voicing" of the 2 speakers, not so much of a difference between the actual ribbons. They are essentially the same exact thing except for being 12" shorter. The AL-III's were voiced much differently than the Platinums were.

Re: Any speaker compare to Platinum under $12,000?

Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:23 pm
by OCCD
Toy Maker wrote:If you have, and like ribbons, I think it will be very hard for you to find any speaker that will sound "better" to you.

Wish you could listen to them, pretty sure you'd fall in love
One of the issues with past Carver speakers has always been BASS if your a Bass fan - with these that issue has been SOLVED!!! =D>