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AL III Plus questions

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aceinc

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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:37 am

Location: SW Ranches, Fl.

Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:46 am

AL III Plus questions

I originally posted this at HomeTheaterShack.com, they recommended that I post it here.

I took a chance and bought a pair of Carver AL III yesterday. One of the ribbons wasn't working, but the woofers sounded ok. I was tentative as I know the ribbons cost ~$425 to repair, and ~$600 to buy. But I bought them anyway for ~$200.

Another enthusiast with more skill at electronics came over today to buy an old 70's Tandberg reel ro reel I was selling, and I asked him to bring his soldering iron. To make a long story short we found that one of the places where the ribbon connects to a small "circuit board" was rubbed through or melted, so we took a little light gauge aluminum foil and bridged the gap. The tweeter seemed to work fine after that.

The previous owner also mentioned that he thought there was a bad cap in the xover which he had replaced, but had just "twisted in," not soldered. He also gave me the original cap. My buddy measured the old cap, and it was in fact bad. When we tried to un twist the old cap to place it properly and to solder it, one of the leads broke off. It was a 150uf 100 volt NP cap, and it was after 5 on a Sunday, so we certainly weren't going to fix it today.

Well luck was surely shining on me today however. I was giving my buddy a dead plate amplifier, to use for parts, and what did I see on the circuit board? A 150uf 100V NP capacitor. He unsoldered it, put it in the xover, and we fired those puppies up. They sound pretty good.

Not one to leave well enough alone I thought I would post here to see if anyone knows of a redesigned xover for this beast?

In looking at the xover, it appears that there are a lot of components, and the gauge of all the wire is very small, including the wire on the inductors. One of the big complaints of this speaker is that it is fairly inefficient. I would think that if a simplified xover could be designed with less resistive components (mainly the inductors) that it might improve the efficiency a bit.

I have been unable to find any links to xover tweaks for these speakers. If anyone knows of any I'd appreciate hearing from you.

One last thing, in the pictures of the natural wood finished versions that I have seen on the net there appears to be a black piece that goes across the top, above the ribbon. I have the black version, and mine do not have that. Anybody know whether mine sould have it, and if so where I might get info on it in case I want to fabricate it.

Thanks for your help.

Paul
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thuffman03

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!! CarverFest Evictee !!

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Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:56 am

Re: AL III Plus questions

Welcome to the forum.

There are several forum members that have modded their ALIII's and I am sure they will be more than happy to let you know what they have done.
Some cool Carver stuff!
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jjptkd

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SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:08 am

Re: AL III Plus questions

=D> \:D/ WELCOME!!! \:D/ =D> Great find on a nice set of speakers!
Sunfire TGP-III
Sunfire 200x5
Klipsch KP 250 II
Samson SX3200 (750x2 Sub Amp)
(2) 18" Klipsch KP 480 Subs
Klipsch RSW 15
PS Audio DL-III DAC
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mbskeam

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SILVER-7t

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Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:32 am

Location: Woodinville Wa

Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:36 am

Re: AL III Plus questions

mods, mods, mods....?????
we dont do no stinkin mods...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:












oh wait, .....yes I do..... :D :D :D
I have a bunch of pics from mine when I did my mod.....
will post latter whan I'm not at work
Mbskeam


#1 BLACK BEAUTY's made by the man, the myth, the legend Bob Carver
CARVER: TFM-75, TFM-45(3), SD/A-490T
SUNFIRE: Tube pre
2 sets of ALS'3, set of SILVERS, set of PLATS
AUDIOCONTROL: phase coupled activator
KENWOOD: BASIC M2a (2)

“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes

The only thing I'll feel......will be the RECOIL
Necronomicon Ex-Mortis....... Klaatu Barada Nikkto
"We should seek the greatest value of our action"
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kingman

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

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Location: Upstate South Carolina

Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:30 pm

Re: AL III Plus questions

Welcome!!!! =D> =D> =D> I have a set of ALIII's and like them mucho!!!!
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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TNRabbit

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

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Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:05 pm

Re: AL III Plus questions

Rolland can rebuild your crossovers...give him a call:

Rolland Barr
Hi-Tech Audio Ltd.
2125 SW 19th St.
Gresham Oregon 97080
503-618-7605 Fax 503-674-8593
http://www.carveraudiorepair.com

OR, you can go active:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12067&hilit=gone+active

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9943&hilit=reese+active
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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frankieD

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Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:16 pm

Re: AL III Plus questions

From Bob Carver himself: The guage of wire used is part of the circuit. Don't change it unless you want to change the sound to a different one than the designer (Bob) had in mind.

When driven with the right amp these will sound great. They do like power but it is worth it.

Also positioning is VERY important to the overall sound. Play around with them. Keep them away from walls by at least 1-2 feet.

Congrats on the deal.
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engtaz

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"TAZ"

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Location: Tampa, FL

Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:40 pm

Re: AL III Plus questions

Welcome
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
Bogen SRB20 is computer amp
Carver PM-350 donated for youth church use
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Toy Maker

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Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:17 pm

Re: AL III Plus questions

Greetings, and Welcome Paul.....

In my opinion, if you are going to spend the $$ to rebuild, or replace your passive crossovers.....

The BEST Mod for a set of AL-III crossovers, is to throw them away! (or at least sell them on eBay.)
The best crossover mod you find, is to get rid if them, and GO ACTIVE

There are allot of people on here that have "Gone Active" or "Bi-Amped" their Carver speakers, and every one of them swears, "It's the only way to go"

Here is a nice long thread Gary posted about his journey. (AL-III's) viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12067&hilit=going+active
Skips journey. (Carver Platinums) viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3431&hilit=going+active


Some other topics worth reading:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7407&hilit=going+active
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6650&p=71159&hilit=going+active#p71159
viewtopic.php?f=124&t=3140&hilit=going+active

There are allot of other threads on bi-amping or going over to a active system. Do a few searches, you you'll come up with a TON of info.
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it 'cause nobody else will

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
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TNRabbit

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13259

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Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: AL III Plus questions

James, I posted mine & Reese's links in the thread above~ :rolleyes:
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

Toy Maker

User avatar

Puppet Master

Posts: 6384

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:26 am

Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: AL III Plus questions

ok good... the more links, the better =D> =D> =D>
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it 'cause nobody else will

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
<<

mbskeam

User avatar

SILVER-7t

Posts: 1830

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:32 am

Location: Woodinville Wa

Post Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:22 pm

Re: AL III Plus questions

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11654

this is a mod I did for the woofers.....
go active if you have to rebuild the X-over

my x-over's are in good shape, so all I had to do was unhook the low pass coil and cap.
the input signal is run thru an active crossover
Mbskeam


#1 BLACK BEAUTY's made by the man, the myth, the legend Bob Carver
CARVER: TFM-75, TFM-45(3), SD/A-490T
SUNFIRE: Tube pre
2 sets of ALS'3, set of SILVERS, set of PLATS
AUDIOCONTROL: phase coupled activator
KENWOOD: BASIC M2a (2)

“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes

The only thing I'll feel......will be the RECOIL
Necronomicon Ex-Mortis....... Klaatu Barada Nikkto
"We should seek the greatest value of our action"
<<

aceinc

Newbie

Posts: 33

Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:37 am

Location: SW Ranches, Fl.

Post Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:55 am

Re: AL III Plus questions

Thanks for all the responses. Due to unforseen events, I had to leave work just after posting this to go to my house where a contractor dug up my cable (used for internet) and muy neighbor's phone line (he wasn't happy.) He also managed to nick the water line for my house, which made my wife a bit grumpy.

I am now back at work, and probably won't have internet at home 'til tomorrow night.

I have the AL III Pluses attached to an Emotiva XPA-2 300 watt 8 ohm, 500 watt 4 ohm amplifier.

I am sure that changing the wire guage will reduce the resistance and hence change the sound. I was wondering, other than the active approach, whether anyone has tried to do a ground up redesign of the crossover?

Another thing I was thinking is that since the ribbon is used in a number of other design, such as Genesis speakers, has anyone looked at how they design their crossovers? Of course the baffle would be different which changes baffle step compenation circuits, etc, but it might be interesting to see what other folks do.

Also as I mentioned in my original post, there appears to be a cross piece missing from the top of the baffle that the tweeter mounts on, where can I get close up pictures of those so that I could fabricate them?
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TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13259

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:58 am

Re: AL III Plus questions

I've not seen anyone do a ground up rebuild of the AL-III crossover, but there's a guy on the other carver site (http://www.thecarversite.com) who's done a new crossover for the Silvers utilizing bi-amp capability (splitting the woofer & ribbon sides).

Personally, I found it relatively easy to bypass the crossovers entirely & biamp; certainly no harder than re-building the passive crossovers, and probably cheaper, too.

Also, here's the best pics I could muster:

Image

Image
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

aceinc

Newbie

Posts: 33

Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:37 am

Location: SW Ranches, Fl.

Post Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:08 pm

Re: AL III Plus questions

Thanks TN Rabbit. I think I can fabricate a pair of tops that may not be identical, should look pretty good based on your pictures.

Paul
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