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Woofs from Dynavox.......

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jimw

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Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:47 am

Woofs from Dynavox.......

Hello all,

Finally received 8 of them.

Diameter is larger than original and will not fit withouth taking stock out of the original cut out.

Mounting holes do not line up.

Only single spade per positive/negative.

Is this the norm for these?

Thought this was going to be a couple hour project, NOT.
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Toy Maker

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Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:50 am

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

That does not sound good....

Sounds like the wrong driver to me
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it 'cause nobody else will

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
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jimw

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Posts: 236

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Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:02 am

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

I emailed Ada, we'll see what she has to say.

It looks just like the original regarding magnet size, weight, etc. I'm guessing the QC on these are finally taking a dive.

How's your luck wthe the surrounds going???? [-o<
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Toy Maker

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Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:14 am

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

They are making a die or mold and samples now... Just waiting on their schedule



Sounds more like they bought a "close" replacement driver. Something off the shelf, and it doesn't fit.
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it 'cause nobody else will

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
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TNRabbit

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Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:31 am

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

jimw wrote:Hello all,

Finally received 8 of them.

Diameter is larger than original and will not fit withouth taking stock out of the original cut out.

Mounting holes do not line up.

Only single spade per positive/negative.

Is this the norm for these?

Thought this was going to be a couple hour project, NOT.


Can you make an adapter plate to fit them so you don't have to hack on your frames?
TNRabbit
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mbskeam

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Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:25 pm

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

there were 3 different speakers.
1st was the honeycomb made by sony?
2nd was a speaker made by Tonegen? screw in the magnet (bigger OD) these are in my silvers
3rd was ??? no screw in the magnet (smaller OD) these are in my plats.
when I say OD, I mean the basket at the point the metal spiders start there bend inward

my rotted one's measure 10-1/2 at the bend(11-7/8 OD - (11/16 x 2 flange's)= 10.5)

also I know this because I blew 2 woofers under warranty 1993, when I got the new woofers they had a plastic adapter ring to make the hole smaller, mine have the bigger hole, didn't understand what they where for till I got on this forum last year,


also......
got this off the diyaudio forum

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-ran ... -high.html

I got that from the designer Jim Croft, who lives here in Seattle.

I created the Carver Amazing woofer system and Large Area Ribbon (co-authored
with David Graebener) for Bob Carver in the mid 1980's as a consultant to
Carver Corporation and was VP of Research and Development at Carver in the
1990s. I would be glad to answer any questions anyone has about these devices.

One question that was asked was whether the Amazings had a high or low Qms. The
Qms was quite high, we attempted to achieve a Qms of nearly 10, which is
required if one is going to end up with a Qt of much greater than 2 and still
maintain reasonable efficiency.

The trick is to be able to maintain 'linear' Qms. One of the big problems we
found early in the development of the Hi-Q open baffle was that many of the
Hi-Q drivers have Qms values that change depending on level. This non-linear
Qms causes a non-linear Qts, which causes a non-linear frequency response with
level...i.e. compression/distortion. This Qms modulation is one of the main
reasons that some have found higher Qts drivers to sound bad. It’s is not the
higher Qts, but the Qms -> Qts nonlinearity that causes the poor sound quality.
Proper Qts match to baffle cut-off frequency will perform quite perfectly, even
for higher Qt values if the resulting frequency response is flat and the Qt
value is maintained at all listening levels.
The Amazing suspension components, spider and surround, took nearly 9 months to
work through the design problems to chase out the non-linearities. No one had
optimized high-Q woofers previous to the Amazings so the driver vendors were
not able to help. We had to drive the component development ourselves. It was
hard to get spiders with low enough damping (they actually call them dampers in
Japan) to achieve high-Q and then it was even more difficult to develop spiders
and surrounds that maintained constant damping.
Okay, that is probably more than what anyone wanted to know on that subject,
but I felt it was important to start getting past this myth that “high-Q
drivers are bad”. It is a systems approach. High-Q is not inherently bad, but
‘mismatched’-Q is. A high-Q driver is appropriate when matched to a ‘low-Q
baffle’, just as a Low-Q driver is appropriate to match to a ‘high-Q’ Helmholtz
enclosure.
The original Amazings had even higher Qts and lower Fs than the later Series.
As someone in the forum suggested, lower Fs requires higher-Q, but this becomes
problematic. For a fixed baffle cutoff frequency, with the standard 6 dB/octave
high pass characteristic from cut-off down to the resonant frequency, the ideal
high-Q gain would match that first order slope over the bandwidth from cutoff
to fs. Unfortunately, the 12 dB of gain we needed in the original Amazings to
achieve reference level at the Fs of 20 Hz required a Qts of about 4. This
created a narrow band peak that doesn’t match the smooth, 6 dB roll-off slope
of the open baffle. Because of this we had to use some shaping networks to
smooth things out from 25 Hz to 100 Hz. We ended up with a fairly smooth
response with a peak at 20 Hz and Fc at 17 or 18 Hz.

The later Amazings had a new lower mass paper cone woofer to replace the
heavier honeycomb devices in the originals. We were able to get the moving mass
down to less than 15 grams, which is quite low for a 12” woofer, but required
for getting decent efficiency.
The Fs was raised to 30 Hz and the Qts was lowered to a value between 2.5 and
3. This worked much better in matching the Fs, Qts, and baffle Fc to get a
smoother response and much higher efficiency.

got a router??? a 45deg cutter may be all you need, this cutter would follow the existing hole.may give you the room you need
Mbskeam


#1 BLACK BEAUTY's made by the man, the myth, the legend Bob Carver
CARVER: TFM-75, TFM-45(3), SD/A-490T
SUNFIRE: Tube pre
2 sets of ALS'3, set of SILVERS, set of PLATS
AUDIOCONTROL: phase coupled activator
KENWOOD: BASIC M2a (2)

“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes

The only thing I'll feel......will be the RECOIL
Necronomicon Ex-Mortis....... Klaatu Barada Nikkto
"We should seek the greatest value of our action"
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jimw

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Posts: 236

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:54 am

Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:22 pm

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

Yea, I'd have to route or add a spacer. Don't know if it would interfere with the grill or not if I went the spacer.

I've got the the MKIV's.

I've NEVER seen a speaker that didn't at least have 4 mounting holes 90 degrees from each other. :x

Maybe it's time to take that leap to VMPS! :-s
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mbskeam

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SILVER-7t

Posts: 1951

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:32 am

Location: Woodinville Wa

Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:27 pm

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

got pics???
Mbskeam


#1 BLACK BEAUTY's made by the man, the myth, the legend Bob Carver
CARVER: TFM-75, TFM-45(3), SD/A-490T
SUNFIRE: Tube pre
2 sets of ALS'3, set of SILVERS, set of PLATS
AUDIOCONTROL: phase coupled activator
KENWOOD: BASIC M2a (2)

“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes

The only thing I'll feel......will be the RECOIL
Necronomicon Ex-Mortis....... Klaatu Barada Nikkto
"We should seek the greatest value of our action"
<<

jimw

TFM-6cb

Posts: 236

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:54 am

Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:39 pm

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

Try here. http://picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/23843718

Dyna is wider as there is more of a taper. Also have a gasket on the front for rear mounting.

I guess if these are in fact the "correct" speaker, I'll have to put a chamfer on the i.d. of the cut out in the baffle, remove the gasket, and drill some mouning holes in the frame. :rolleyes:

No reply from Dynavox as of yet.
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Toy Maker

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Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:13 pm

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

You better NOT be telling me there are (2) different SURROUNDS ??????????????????????????? :x :x :x :x :x
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it 'cause nobody else will

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
<<

jimw

TFM-6cb

Posts: 236

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:54 am

Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:04 pm

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

Looks like it's just the basket that is different.

The surround is the ONLY thing that doesn't look any different from stock on MY woofs.

MBSKEAM can hopefully confirm his silvers and MKIV's were different in basket size only and not surrounds.
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mbskeam

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SILVER-7t

Posts: 1951

Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:32 am

Location: Woodinville Wa

Post Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:03 pm

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

I am going off off memory here, I think the paper cone surrounds are the same,
if you need me to really look and do some measuring I can, I will pull off the grills. let me know
the honeycomb I have no clue, these would be of the flat attach type vs angled cone type I think, what I have read this does not really make a difference

Image
Mbskeam


#1 BLACK BEAUTY's made by the man, the myth, the legend Bob Carver
CARVER: TFM-75, TFM-45(3), SD/A-490T
SUNFIRE: Tube pre
2 sets of ALS'3, set of SILVERS, set of PLATS
AUDIOCONTROL: phase coupled activator
KENWOOD: BASIC M2a (2)

“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes

The only thing I'll feel......will be the RECOIL
Necronomicon Ex-Mortis....... Klaatu Barada Nikkto
"We should seek the greatest value of our action"
<<

1044InProgress

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Newbie 50+

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Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:35 pm

Location: Western NC

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:26 am

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

Oh no.. this is not good. I was about to purchase 8 or 10 woofers from them. Keep us updated on this issue because I need to buy them ASAP and I believe they are the only folks that sell them.

I had been talking to Lolita though.. maybe she has a different source?
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jimw

TFM-6cb

Posts: 236

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:54 am

Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:32 pm

Re: Woofs from Dynavox.......

They issued a pick up for the return of the spkrs they sent and said they would take care of it. No details as to what they sent or HOW they would fix it. :-k

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