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It is currently Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:36 pm

Kind of amp

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Scottinindiana

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Post Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:46 pm

Kind of amp

Just wondering if the amp size makes that much of a difference. I use a 60 watt a channel
Class d amp that sounds good but after reading on here what a bigger amp can do
Wonder if it's worth the investment.
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hewlew1

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Post Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: Kind of amp

Welcome, and I would have to say more power is always better. Your post is a bit vague as we have no idea of what you are trying to do.
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kingman

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Post Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:13 pm

Re: Kind of amp

It depends a lot on your speakers. In general...HELL YEAH!!!!!
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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TNRabbit

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Post Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:25 pm

Re: Kind of amp

There are a lot of unaddressed variables here. Details on your setup & what you're looking for?
TNRabbit
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BobSmi57

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Post Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: Kind of amp

Scott, you would be much happier with a lot more power to drive the AL3 speakers. 60 wrms is low for those speakers. You said you had an m1.0t to be upgraded. Are you planning on using that amp?

Bob
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fill35U

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Post Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:57 pm

Re: Kind of amp

As kingman noted, it depends a lot on your speakers. The more efficient the speaker, less power is needed to make the same volume. Keep in mind that manufacturers' sensitivity ratings are averages, and with subwoofer drivers it's difficult to compare apples to apples.

The ribbons in your AL-III's are very efficient, but they are integrated to match the sensitivity of the subwoofer section.

It also depends on how loud you prefer to listen to your music. Obviously, the louder you like to crank things up, the more power you need. A modest 3dB increase in volume requires twice the amp power, all else being equal. Doubling the volume requires ten times the power.

The type of music makes a huge difference. The lower a bass note, the more power you need (in general). It may depend a lot on the particular *copy* of the music. Music with little dynamic range makes demands on long-term power, music with high dynamic range favors short term capacity.

In the same way, some amp classes confer efficiency advantages over others- depending on the music and volume. Class D is a pretty broad range, there have been many proprietary designs in the past 20 years.

Technology is at the point that we could take a particular amp, a particular pair of speakers, a particular recording of music from a particular source at a particular volume, and have a pretty good idea of how things would behave. We could then change one of those variables and see how performance changes. And then we could make generalizations for particular amps, speakers, and music.

The problem is two other variables- the listener and the room. It *is* possible to map a room digitally so its acoustics can be analyzed, but most people tend to change their room, their furniture, the speaker positions and angles, the listening position... Slight changes can make big differences. And every listener is different. Sure, we can measure the listener, their hearing curve, sensitivities to distortion, etc. But those things can change. *Skill* at listening and *preferences* can change. Our brains like "a change of scenery", so sometimes anything new, even if it's "worse", can be refreshing. That makes improvements hard to quantify with complex stimulation like music.

Bottom line: everybody will recommend something different, but there are no guarantees. *My* recommendation is to try biamping those AL-III's when you get your M-1.0t back. Try it both ways, with the M-1.0t on the ribbons and on the subs. TNRabbit is an expert at biamping!

If you like to play loud, and you do want more power than your current 60W amp, then my advice is to try several different amps and see what works best for you. That's why so many of us have so much gear! :D
Living room system: TGP IV, TX-8r, PT-2400(x6), PM-1.5a(x3), TFM-45(x2), TFM-55

Spares/projects: C-1, C-9, M-400, PM-350(x2), M-1.5t, PT-1800(x4), TGP I, Architectural True Sub, pm420

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frenchguy

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Post Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:06 pm

Re: Kind of amp

If you have AL3,s? then you Need more power!! :rolleyes: 60 watts is in no way enough for those speakers!! :shock: I have the same speakers & run 1000 watts per channel, you need at the very least a tfm 42/45 or a m4.0t. you would be surprised what them speakers can do with some amp behind them!! good luck! :) 8)
Carver M-4.0t & Rollandized tfm42, ct-6 & ct-17, sda390t, jolida jd 100A & JBL L96,s Modified JBL 4401,s W/Ribbon Tweeters, Carverfest vacuum tube amp & CF Linestage, Dared SL-2000A tube preamp, Carver AL3 Amazing speakers in natural oak, Carver Cinema 5.1 subwoofer & Douglas connection cables
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Magnaryder

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Post Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: Kind of amp

I guess it depends on what you want to do. I run 24 ball busting watts...as seen here


viewtopic.php?f=61&t=18521

more info might be helpful

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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frenchguy

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Post Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:52 pm

Re: Kind of amp

Ray, you dont run 24 watts on your ribbons? he supposedly has AL3,s & is using a 60 watt amp, grossly underpowered IMO!! :rolleyes: :)
Carver M-4.0t & Rollandized tfm42, ct-6 & ct-17, sda390t, jolida jd 100A & JBL L96,s Modified JBL 4401,s W/Ribbon Tweeters, Carverfest vacuum tube amp & CF Linestage, Dared SL-2000A tube preamp, Carver AL3 Amazing speakers in natural oak, Carver Cinema 5.1 subwoofer & Douglas connection cables
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fill35U

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Post Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:29 pm

Re: Kind of amp

That's a real beauty of an amp, Ray! =P~ I can only hope to hear it one day.

Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks. That's why it's so hard to make recommendations!
Living room system: TGP IV, TX-8r, PT-2400(x6), PM-1.5a(x3), TFM-45(x2), TFM-55

Spares/projects: C-1, C-9, M-400, PM-350(x2), M-1.5t, PT-1800(x4), TGP I, Architectural True Sub, pm420

Don't call amp mutilators "butchers"- butchers are highly skilled professionals.
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Magnaryder

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Post Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:55 pm

Re: Kind of amp

fill35U wrote:That's a real beauty of an amp, Ray! =P~ I can only hope to hear it one day.

Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks. That's why it's so hard to make recommendations!
Thanks 'fill35U', I love the V20. It lends an impressive depth and breadth to the soundfield. I hear more nothing behind the music than I have with any other amp I've owned. I do wish I had kept my Fortes another week.

not wanting to hijack scott's thread

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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jjptkd

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Post Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:47 am

Re: Kind of amp

I have a set of AL-III's in my theater room and use 4 channels of a Sunfire 200x5 (bi-amped) to power them. Recently I swapped out the 200x5 with a 400x5 and found it unnecessary. It did get louder faster but total output seemed the same. Even with the 200x5 I don't come close to full volume on my Receiver so lots of head room left. Of course if each channel represents a 4 ohm load, in theory, I should be running about 800 watts per side with this setup.
Sunfire Ultimate Receiver II
Klipsch RB 75's
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Sunfire TrueSub Signature

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