Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Carver Speaker Discussions and Questions
Post Reply
User avatar
sea
TFM-35
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:47 pm
Location: NC Piedmont

Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by sea » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:05 pm

Seems like I have read a few times on here that humidity can cause buzzing in the carver ribbon speakers. I thought I would document my experiences. I have a pair of Platinum Mark IV's. The room I have them in less than ideal in many ways. The major factor as relates to this topic is that it is a basement. My house has what is called in this part of the country a "daylight" basement, meaning that only one wall is underground so to speak.

Anyway we have had an unusually damp few days and on top of that I have been slow to turn on the AC. Yesterday when I went down to listen a little the humidity in the room was near 80%. The ribbons were buzzing in both speakers like a SOB. I mean to the point of being unlistenable. I turned on the AC and Dehmidifier. By early afternoon the RH was down to about 48% and ----- ALL buzzing was gone. I went back and listened to some of the same songs to confirm....no buzzing.

Has anyone else experienced this? Does this mean I am headed for trouble down the road.....or will everything be good as long as I keep the humidity down?

User avatar
frenchguy
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 2803
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: wisconsin

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by frenchguy » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:20 pm

I have not had that issue but have never had that high of humidity in my house even though I have what sounds like a similar basement setup! I have read that people have had that same thing with high humidity! you should be good to go as long as you keep that humidity in check!! 8)
Carver Silver 7t mono blocks, Carver M-4.0t & 2 tfm 42,s. ct-6 & ct-17, sda390t,TX11 tuner, jolida jd 100A. JBL L96 & JBL 4401,s W/Ribbon Tweeters, Dared SL-2000A tube preamp, Dared MP-5BT Integrated vacuum tube amp, 2 sets of Carver Amazing Silver speakers, oak & black. Carver Cinema 5.1 subwoofer & Tesla audio Carverfest satellite ribbon speakers & stands & Douglas connection cables

User avatar
WhackJob
M-400t CUBE
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:25 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by WhackJob » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:01 pm

I have high humidity during the summer months here, however so far no buzzing from my 48" ribbons. Of course, now that I've stated that..... :-# ](*,)

User avatar
pmat
Newbie 50+
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:06 pm

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by pmat » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:08 pm

I live in a heavy fog area and often my door is open all day for the dog (she is old). I have not experienced that buzzing. All 3 speaker sets are 48 inch ribbons though.
Power is the aphrodisiac of audio

OconeeOrange
"Forum Troll"
"Forum Troll"
Posts: 3992
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by OconeeOrange » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:32 pm

I have had small ribbons outside on the porch (CRS-3) for a few years.
In SC the humidity is very high. I like that as I am a Son of the South.
I also live on a large lake that fogs over.
Years back before mounting, saw those reports on ribbons and researched it. I posted as to it all years back. Just a repeated myth.

My experience has been it amounts to just myth as to the ribbons in my smaller speakers.
They sound the same if it is raining (100%) or the Sun is at high noon.
The web is a fun place. Some one posts something, it is repeated until all accept it as a fact. Bullshit on that.
People passing themselves off as experts repeat things with no basis in fact.

Maybe the long ribbons suffer some, but I don't thing there is much fact to support that. Lots of ribbons live in the South.
morebillre.jpg
morebillre.jpg (159.43 KiB) Viewed 4120 times

User avatar
sea
TFM-35
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:47 pm
Location: NC Piedmont

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by sea » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:36 pm

Myth or not I am not sure. There could be some other explanation but the facts are as I explained them earlier.

User avatar
frenchguy
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 2803
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: wisconsin

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by frenchguy » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:17 pm

Ed, you cant compare the small CRM2 or 3 ribbons to the large ribbons in the amazings or the AL3,s!! :rolleyes: the ribbons are so small in those! I know for a fact that humidity can & does affect the large ribbons! ](*,) I would just keep the humidity in check & you shouldnt have any issues! 8)
Carver Silver 7t mono blocks, Carver M-4.0t & 2 tfm 42,s. ct-6 & ct-17, sda390t,TX11 tuner, jolida jd 100A. JBL L96 & JBL 4401,s W/Ribbon Tweeters, Dared SL-2000A tube preamp, Dared MP-5BT Integrated vacuum tube amp, 2 sets of Carver Amazing Silver speakers, oak & black. Carver Cinema 5.1 subwoofer & Tesla audio Carverfest satellite ribbon speakers & stands & Douglas connection cables

User avatar
sea
TFM-35
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:47 pm
Location: NC Piedmont

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by sea » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:26 am

frenchguy wrote:Ed, you cant compare the small CRM2 or 3 ribbons to the large ribbons in the amazings or the AL3,s!! :rolleyes: the ribbons are so small in those! I know for a fact that humidity can & does affect the large ribbons! ](*,) I would just keep the humidity in check & you shouldnt have any issues! 8)
Thanks. I have been running the dehumidifier anytime I am not listening. It is keeping the room very dry---about 40% RH. No buzzing. Ed

User avatar
frenchguy
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 2803
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: wisconsin

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by frenchguy » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:00 pm

Ed, sounds good!! =D> we all need to care for our ribbons with kid gloves as who knows if the kapton film will ever be available to repair these ribbons! [-o< I for one love the sound of my ribbons & dont know if I could go back to conventional speakers again!! #-o :)
Carver Silver 7t mono blocks, Carver M-4.0t & 2 tfm 42,s. ct-6 & ct-17, sda390t,TX11 tuner, jolida jd 100A. JBL L96 & JBL 4401,s W/Ribbon Tweeters, Dared SL-2000A tube preamp, Dared MP-5BT Integrated vacuum tube amp, 2 sets of Carver Amazing Silver speakers, oak & black. Carver Cinema 5.1 subwoofer & Tesla audio Carverfest satellite ribbon speakers & stands & Douglas connection cables

User avatar
sea
TFM-35
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:47 pm
Location: NC Piedmont

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by sea » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:19 pm

frenchguy wrote:Ed, sounds good!! =D> we all need to care for our ribbons with kid gloves as who knows if the kapton film will ever be available to repair these ribbons! [-o< I for one love the sound of my ribbons & dont know if I could go back to conventional speakers again!! #-o :)
I love mine as well. However, I have a pair of fully modded Polk SDA 1C that I think are just as good and better in some ways. I think I am going to bring these polks to CarverFest. The Polks image better. I have not take the time or effort to listen to them in the same room with the same electronics. Neither room placement is great. The Polks are using a M1.0 MKii with a BillD C1 and the Plats are being driven with a TFM75 through a C16.

User avatar
sea
TFM-35
Posts: 448
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:47 pm
Location: NC Piedmont

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by sea » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:26 pm

frenchguy wrote:Ed, sounds good!! =D> we all need to care for our ribbons with kid gloves as who knows if the kapton film will ever be available to repair these ribbons! [-o< I for one love the sound of my ribbons & dont know if I could go back to conventional speakers again!! #-o :)
I see from you profile that you are from Wisconsin. My son is a pilot and has worked the last several summers at EAA air academy in Osh Kosh. He will be back up that way for another summer in about a month. He has fallen in live with a girl from Madison and is even starting shed his Southern accent.

User avatar
frenchguy
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 2803
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: wisconsin

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by frenchguy » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:20 pm

Ed, yeah EAA is a big event around here every year!! we are only about 20 miles or so from Oshkosh! my youngest step daughter has been working concessions there the last few years for extra $$ theres people around here that rent our their houses out for EAA & use the $$ to take a vacation! :) the wife & I went to it about 3 years ago for the first time & really enjoyed it! they usually have a big name band there every year! yeah now your son can come home with a wisconsin accent! :lol: :lol: :lol: Madison is a great city, we go there fairly often to shop & hangout! we spent a lot of time there 3 years ago with my open heart surgery & related heart issues! hopefully that is behind me but we still enjoy going there to visit! 8) Happy to hear you guys are coming to CF15, we will be neighbors so Im sure we will get time to hang out & get to know each other! =D> we will be having quite a few dinners at our cabin again this year so we will have you up for dinner Im sure! only a little over 4 months now, it will be here before we know it! :D :D AL
Carver Silver 7t mono blocks, Carver M-4.0t & 2 tfm 42,s. ct-6 & ct-17, sda390t,TX11 tuner, jolida jd 100A. JBL L96 & JBL 4401,s W/Ribbon Tweeters, Dared SL-2000A tube preamp, Dared MP-5BT Integrated vacuum tube amp, 2 sets of Carver Amazing Silver speakers, oak & black. Carver Cinema 5.1 subwoofer & Tesla audio Carverfest satellite ribbon speakers & stands & Douglas connection cables

User avatar
Robert R
TFM-75
Posts: 912
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:05 pm

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by Robert R » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:44 pm

O O- To assume you know as much about the ALS ribbons as the real ribbon experts on this forum is a direct result of comparing unseen apples to Oconee Oranges. Your ribbons are glaringly different - their behavior is not applicable here.

To call a Sunfire CRM 2 a "ribbon" speaker, or to think of it as such, is really a mistake we all make. Bob started this bullshit, or at least OKed it - for marketing purposes, I'd imagine. Put more correctly, the CRM-2 is a two-way speaker system with a ribbon tweeter.

The ribbon's contribution in the CRMs is fairly subtle. Most of the output energy comes from the conventional side drivers. The upper rolloff in the side drivers comes not from the crossover, but simply from their design parameters - they contribute sound well beyond the frequencies most of us think of as "midrange". The ribbons gradually take over the output as frequencies rise, and they focus the highs in a way that the side-firing drivers cannot. But not until above the Gundry range is the ribbon tweeter starting to dominate.

In their early development, Bob designed the CRM crossovers with a automatic-resetting thermal circuit breaker in the ribbon circuit, to protect the ribbons from melting down when facing the danger of extended over driving. This worked fine as far as protecting the tweeters went, but Bob found that when the breakers opened, the average abuser didn't even notice, so small is the ribbons' contribution. They'd just keep on blasting away. So Bob redesigned the circuit, making the breaker cut off the entire speaker, thus demanding a cool-down period by presenting a symptom that nobody can ignore - total silence.

That CRM ribbon is in no way comparable to the big, full-range ALS ribbons, which absolutely do get problems from humidity. Trust me - I have seven pairs (all 48"), and they don't need the South to screw up - just turn off the AC in muggy summer weather, and wait for it. Worst time is early fall, when one might be tempted to shut down the AC on a day that's 65 out, and raining. Open those windows a while, then try some music, and those ribbons will sound like they're popping corn or something - it's awful. This is real. Many have experienced it. It's not instantaneous - it seems to take some time to absorb enough moisture to affect the Kapton, and if they are running a lot of the time one might never have a problem - the warm aluminum keeps them dry. In fact, running them is part of the cure - that, and shutting the windows when it's muggy. Fortunately, the effect is temporary; once they dry out they are good as ever.

There are, thank goodness, an awful lot of phenomena that we can know enough about to deal with on a practical level without becoming experts. I don't claim to be one of the experts on the Kapton ribbons, nor do I need to be, any more than one needs to be an expert on gasoline to know what happens if you douse yourself and light a match, or on gravity to know what happens if you jump off a cliff. On some things, you just have to benefit from the experience of others.

RobertR
"You know what folks? I'm happy."

OconeeOrange
"Forum Troll"
"Forum Troll"
Posts: 3992
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Carver Ribbons and Humidity

Post by OconeeOrange » Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:15 pm

On ebay the small ribbons sell for more than the long ones.
The best set of the long I have heard belong to the Rabbit. They are exceptional.

Humidity (moisture being soaked up) does not affect my CRS-3 which live out side. Seems like it would be the same, but maybe not.

A good set of long ribbon speakers do have a good sound.

A used pair (on pick up) is quite cheap now.
I don't know why in this age people not collectors would want long ribbons. Better sound is out there. (I guess that thought will hurt a few here, and they will become defensive). Bob gave up on them years ago.
I really like that Gallo tweeter on speakers similar size to my CRS.

If humidity is that big a problem for them then WTF?
Like I said, mine are not affected.

Post Reply

Return to “Carver Speakers”