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Carver AL III + woofer problem

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les korcala

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Post Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:11 pm

Carver AL III + woofer problem

Hello,
I am new to thid webside ( I am glad I found it )
O own pair of AL III + Carvers and one of the woofers is bad , all I hear is very destorted sound in low levels!
Not sure is is crossover or the magnet on the woofer itself gone.
I checked cone and the sleve on the speaker and is all good and tight!

I swap diferent amps to see if one of the amp's chanell was gone, but that is all good.
Not sure , if there is another way to test bad woofer?
I curentlly run Only me ribbons with one Amp and use external Sub amp & subwoofer. Sound is awesome! but still would love to fix my problem.
Than you all for your time and any tips you might have.
Thanks,
Les

Carver AL III + Ribbons
2 Chiro C-200 amps
1 Chiro C- 190 mono amp
Chiro Mesa C-150 sub
Chiro C-800 Pre amp
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treitz3

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Post Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:26 pm

First off, welcome to the forum. Do you have dual binding posts on your ALIII's?
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

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Magnaryder

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Post Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:37 pm

Eminence produced the ALIII woofers that I have. Part# on mine is 618-00004-01

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

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les korcala

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Post Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:09 am

AL III + woofer problem

Yes , they have 2 pairs of biding posts, one for the ribbons and other for subs.

Thanks for the tip on the woofers model.
Since those are original, they might just gone bad, but I am not sure?
Again, there has to be way to check them if they are shot or other part of the speaker etc..
Thanks,
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Magnaryder

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Post Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:27 am

les : What sort of sound does it make? If it's a rattle the surround or voice coil might have gone south. These speakers require alot of power so there's a fair chance the previous owner might have accidentally overdriven them. Pull the woofers if you can and give them the once over. Push(gently) in on the cone and see if it makes a metalic noise(voice coil damage) or the surround has holes or cracks in it. If either of these instances have occured you'll want to replace the drivers.

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

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bob p

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Post Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:17 am

depending on what's wrong with the drivers, you might be able to repair them, so whatever you do, don't throw away the baskets until you know for sure. some drivers can be repaired by refoaming/resurrounding or by reconing, which obviates the need for buying a complete replacement driver.

no, on second thought: your speakers are trashed. send them to me!
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.
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TNRabbit

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Post Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:48 am

WELCOME les korcala!

A CHEAP, easy quick check is to take the woofer out and run a SMALL amount of current thru it directly from the speaker wires to check for proper operation. "

If that checks out, I'd say your crossover is toasted. It's easy enought to remove the back and check for obvious burned marks in the circuit....
TNRabbit
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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les korcala

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Post Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:31 pm

Woofer problem on AL III 's

Hello,
Thanks for all the responses on my woofer problem.

I think one of you guys will know what is the problem now!
I removed bottom wood base and checked woofer very well for any wholes /craks etc.. it's all very clean.
What I noticed is , when I try to compress the cone , it's locked up ! other word is not moving.
When I checked othe speaker and tray to move it , it move and flexed no problem. not sure if the woofer is gone or problem with magnet etc..
Also if I tried to listen only to that woofer , sound is very distorded kind of muffle, not sure if is the right word for it.

Thanks again for all your help with this speaker.
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F1nut

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Post Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:21 am

Your voice coil is frozen. Time to buy a new woofer.
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TNRabbit

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Post Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:39 am

I replaced mine with Infinity Perfect 10 Kappa Series woofers. I'm happy with the swap.
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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bob p

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Post Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:42 am

your driver is definitely dead, and its time to pull it out. you still have some options though, depending upon how accurate you want the replacement driver to be with respect to the original one.

RESTORATION
if the speaker's voice coil measures nominal impedance its possible that an experienced speaker builder/restorer could salvage your existing driver and rebuild it. this would involve cutting out the surround and spider, inspecting the voice coil, and remounting the cone if the voice coil checks out okay. this would preserve the original cone and voice coil, and would require a minimal parts charge (spider and surround) and a labor charge. the problem is finding experienced speaker builders who are willing to do this sort of thing. to save on shipping charges, i've done this kind of repair myself. its a PITA, but it provides an accurate restoration.

if the voice coil is open (or shorted to a lower Z)
then the voice coil is toast and you will have to have the speaker replaced or reconed. if you can find someone that stocks original cones than you can have an exact reproduction cone installed on your basket. this also allows you to follow the 100% restoration path. the parts charge is high, but the labor charge is half of what it would be in the above case, because reconing is actually pretty easy to do. IIRC somebody mentioned Eminence being the OEM for that speaker. if that's the case, contact eminence, or an authorized repair facility like orange county. give them the cone number off of the speaker and ask what it would cost to have the original basket/magnet reconed vs. obtaining a recone kit and DIY.

either of these two methods will provide a 100% original restoration, if that's what you want. both methods will probably be cheaper than trying to find an original replacement woofer assembly, as original Carver parts have become expensive. rebuilding also allows you to recycle your frame and magnets. DIY can save you a lot on shipping.

REPLACEMENT
choosing a suitable non-OEM replacement driver can be a complicated issue. if the AL woofer is ported (uses a Thiele-Small alignment) then choosing the right replacement driver requires getting familiar with T-S speaker parameters and involves some serious number crunching. This takes you into the realm of audio engineering and speaker design. luckily, there are lots of sites on the web that explain how to do this.

OTOH, if someone else has already done the heavy lifting WRT finding a good replacment driver, you could just follow their lead. ;)

HTH

As an aside, driver lockups are signs of abuse, like too much clean power, or asking the speaker to reproduce a frequency that's below the port tuning frequency in a Thiele-Small arrangement. once you get below the port tuning frequency in a TS array, Xmax (linear displacement of the cone) increases exponentially as power increases. cone lockup in a TS array is pathognomonic indication of LF abuse. that can be caused by LF rumble from a turntable with no subsonic filter, faulty interconnects, hooking up interconnects while the amp is under power, etc.
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.
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DaveS

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Post Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:08 am

http://www.carveraudio.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=589 THIS IS A STICKY CHECK THE FOURTH THREAD DOWN.
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maddmaxxx

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Post Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:44 am

*-ALIII WOOFER REPLACEMENT! = 'Infinity' [perfect 10 series]

-sir daves ; as i remember this problem from awhile ago...nobody ever started the the 'thread' [ALIII's replacement woofers]...problem being the dynovox woofs are to tall, [front to rear] to fit the ALIII's 'enclosure'...mr jimw forgot to start the thread ??? anyways [between mr tnrabbit and mr jimmy neutron] you have your answer w/the 'infinty' woofer...this should be a 'sticky thread/topic', [ALIIIwoofer replacement], especially, for ALL those folks who 'butchered their enclosures' too much !...these woofs are uniquie to the Carver 'ribbon' speaker 'family'...i hope this is'nt too bad a typing to understand...../mx

-EDIT,...[Infinity / 'perfect 10 kappa series' ]= #1 answer !

-EDIT,...PLEASE make this a 'sticky', [finally ALIII woofers !]

-EDIT,... sir daves, please 'tidy-up'[clarify] this 'post' to make it 'somewhat' legible...thanx
Last edited by maddmaxxx on Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
-* © Küül ®™ /mx...
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bob p

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Post Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:54 am

FYI - if you want to buy an infinity woofer, buy it directly from Harmon Parts. When I was restoring my RS speakers I bought a woofer and a tweeter one from them over the phone at a HUGE discount compared to what it would have cost from a retail dealer/warranty station. i think that i actually got the jobber price. you just need to know the correct part number when you call.
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.
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les korcala

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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:41 am

Post Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:43 pm

Bad woofer & power switch etc..

Hello,
Thanks for great explanation of the foulty woofer.
I pulled out last night and is ready to be replaced. I am not about to mess with rebuilding it ( don't have time and do not know how)

I belive it did happen when I turned off my system ( very loud sound came of the ribbons as well and after that thsi channell was shot)

I do have another question on how everyone use the power cables/switches etc..

I use surge protector and before al, I did was switch the on/off switch , but I noticed clipping sound in the Carvers speakers, it did not sound safe to me.
So now I have to do is swich all ( four of them ) on /off switches on each component , than swith off the surge protector.
IS THERE ANOTHER EASIER OR BETTER WAY TO MANAGE YOUR COMPONENTS & PROVENTING FROM HEARING CLIPPING SOUND OD YOUR RIBBONS WHEN YOU SWITCH ALL OFF?

BTW ,
ONE OF THE PERSON I AM BUYING AMP FROM< HAS PAIR OF AL III's FOR SALE VERY CHEAP!!!! $400 but need to be pick up localy in Iowa I thnk ?
I can check it out and give somone contact to that person.
Best,
Les
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