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HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

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megasat16

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Post Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:50 pm

HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

I've looked through a lot of threads on Carver Forum but no luck finding the post with the direction to test a pair of Platinum Amazing. :shock:

So, please tell me how would I test a pair of Platinum Amazing when I pickup from the seller? What kind of instruments do I need to take there? I have a DMM to test the impedance if need to be. I just wanted to make sure the ribbon is good and does not buzz or needs a replacement soon. [-o<

I have no clue whatsoever about Amazing speakers so please provide the direction in details. ](*,)

Thanks!
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stevewithrow

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Post Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:05 am

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

Take piano music and play it loud...any problems with the ribbons it will show...
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OBI56

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Post Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:21 am

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

Bring piano music to test for buzzing, expecially near the ends of the ribbons and at high volume. Also make sure that you have access to an amp powerful enough to drive them properly (300 to 500WPC into 4 or 2 ohms for the origianls; bring your own if you have to). If the seller wants to demo them on a receiver, you will never hear any problems, if it can drive them to any kind of reasonable volume that is.

A DMM is pretty much useless for measuring impedance of the ribbons but will work fine for measuring the DC resistance of them to ensure that you have no opens or shorts. Whihc model are you looking at since the actual DC resistance of the ribbons is different from model to model.

Check the woofer surrounds for signs of tears or foam rot.

Also check the ribbon for stripped screws or ones that show signs of having been removed. You should see 2 different types of screws; Philips head on the inner side and Robertsons on the outer side (may be the reverse) but all the screws in each row should be identical. If you find rivets instead of the inside row or screws, walk away as these are not the original ribbons but ribbons from another supplier that cannot be rebuilt, only replaced and which do not have the performance of the originals.

You can also take a flashlight and shine it through looking closely for cracks in the ribbon conductors (small ones can be fixed with a circuit board repair pen, larger ones can be repaired with metal tape bridges as outlined elsewhere on the forum).
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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maddmaxxx

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Post Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:33 am

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

-bg ribbons are big money...perhaps brighter...too much snow to A-B them :-k

-for the bg's;


-why not remove the rivets, replace w/ stainless steel [inner = machined, buttonheads changed in]

-and outer [woodscrews = phillps head changed in] as not to interfere w/ the magnets :-k ...another 'tweek'

-and acourse your blue loctite and 'snap on', torque nutdriver [we all have handy ;) ]


-piano muzic, for checking ribbons...seems the agreed on method

-personal note; i feel the ribbons are 70% of the speakers value [silver ribbons new ohmed-out at 3.6 to 3.8

-plats were different [by .5 ohms , cant remember offhand if its .5 more or less ???]

-have i confused everyone yeti ???...i think i am now officially confused again :-"

-hmmmm signature lines are a funny thing

-back to group pottery for me O:)
-* © Küül ®™ /mx...
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megasat16

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Post Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:29 am

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

Thank you Steve, OBI, and Maxx for helping me out here. I'll be taking my Citation 7.1 amp along with me and a flash light. What Piano music is good to test the ribbons and how loud should I play the speakers?

Thanks again and much appreciated for the help!
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stevewithrow

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Post Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:02 am

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

I found a problem with one of my ribbons when I played piano music with sustained notes , it was a decent level , not over bearing...(Thank god it was an easy fix on the ribbon).... :) ..Looks like your Citation will be bridged at 450 watts at 8 ohms.....(2 channels)..I would check your owners manual to make sure your amp can go down to 2 ohms ..OBI...maddmax.....?


Citation 7.1

Power Output:
4 x 150 watts @ 8 Ohms
4 x 240 watts @ 4 Ohms
2 x 150 watts + 1 x 450 watts @ 8 Ohms
2 x 450 watts @ 8 Ohms bridged { 8 ohms might be a problem...}
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megasat16

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Post Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:13 am

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

Thanks Steve! I think the citation 7.1 is stable down to 1 ohms from what I heard but I have never driven them with such demanding speaker before. I also have a Carver PM1.5 (450W x 2 at 8 ohms) with RCA to XLR cables that I could try hooking up. I don't know it would be a better choice or not.
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OBI56

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Post Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:32 am

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

megasat16 wrote:Thanks Steve! I think the citation 7.1 is stable down to 1 ohms from what I heard but I have never driven them with such demanding speaker before. I also have a Carver PM1.5 (450W x 2 at 8 ohms) with RCA to XLR cables that I could try hooking up. I don't know it would be a better choice or not.


Megastat, if you are talking about the Harman Kardon Citation 7.1 HT amp, I've heard that it doesn't much like loads below 4 ohms, going into protect mode when driven hard into them. The same applies to running into loads much below 8 ohms in bridged mode at very high volumes. Now, while Platinums are much easier to drive than Originals, I still wouldn't count on using the Citation in bridged mode to drive them but it would probably work great using multiple channels in bi-amp mode due to the Citation's huge current reserves.

The only person I know who has a Citation 7.1 was driving some Ariel Acoustics 10T speakers in normal, unbridged mode and would run into the protection circuits on a regular basis while really pushing the amp (the Areils dip to 3 ohms over 2 big parts of the mid-bass and mid-highs) and when he tried driving them in bridged mode, the amp would go into protect mode at relatively low (he loves his music loud) for him volume levels. No problems whatsoever with any other speakers he owns, just with these.

Just my opinion, but the only way you can know for sure is to try it out for yourself and see if the protection circuits kick in in bridged mode, but I'm willing to bet that you'll never trip them in normal, unbridged mode driving Platinums (or Silvers)
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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megasat16

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Post Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:46 pm

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

Thanks OBI! I will try the Citation unbridged at 150W/ch. I think it's kind of low power for the woofers though so I'll have to try bridged mode at home. If the citation 7.1 protection circuit trips at the bridged mode, I am gonna have to try with different amps.

I'll be picking up my Amazings next week.

Thanks,
James
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OBI56

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Post Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:25 am

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

megasat16 wrote:Thanks OBI! I will try the Citation unbridged at 150W/ch. I think it's kind of low power for the woofers though so I'll have to try bridged mode at home. If the citation 7.1 protection circuit trips at the bridged mode, I am gonna have to try with different amps.

I'll be picking up my Amazings next week.

Thanks,
James


James, if you were talking about a Sony, Technics, Pioneer or other mass market 150WPC amp, then definitely 150WPC from one of those would not be enough to make the Amazing Platinums sing. The Citation has large current reserves available so it can sustain its 150W output into a more difficult than average speaker load. These large current reserves are the reason why many Carver (especially the Silver 7t, 9t, M-4.0t, TFM-55, TFM75 and A-760X) and all the Sunfire amps are so prized; because they can drive those pupies to ear bleed levels all day long.

Its not so much the power output as the current capability which is why some much less powerful tube amps (65WPC in the case of 1 member on here) will run Platinums quite succesfully. Tube amps are inherently better at driving complex, low impedance loads and often even have low impedance output taps for this purpose.
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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BillD

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Post Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:17 am

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

It's kinda like the difference between torque and horsepower. High current amps are like high torque engines in cars. Lotsa of those little rice burners (Subaru comes to mind) have plenty of horsepower and almost zero torque, so they can't haul any load.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
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Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
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OBI56

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Post Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:36 pm

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

[quote="BillD"]It's kinda like the difference between torque and horsepower. High current amps are like high torque engines in cars. Lotsa of those little rice burners (

Damn Bill, you found the EXACT analogy I was looking for!!! BTW, you should have used Honda and its Si is the perfect example: 197 horsepower but only 139 pound/feet of torque at 6100 rmp, peaky as hell but driving it at anything under 5000 rmp is like trying to drive a normal car with the parking brake still on. Can't haul a trailer with 500 pounds of gravel in to with one of those, let alone a small dinghy. A much lower powered but higher torque Volkswagen Jetta TDI (140hp, 237 #/feet or torque) can not only haul twice the trailer load that the Honda can't but easily pull a 16 foot camping trailer all day ans still beat the Honda at any stoplight race with both cars starting at idle. With the Honda dropping the clutch at 5000 rpm, it would have the advantage but who wants to live with a car that has to screech away at high RPM all day long just to get out if its own way?
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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BillD

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Post Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:41 pm

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

My perfect car is a 3000 lb. mid engine sports car with a 300 HP engine and 300 lb-ft of torque.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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OBI56

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Post Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:58 pm

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

BillD wrote:My perfect car is a 3000 lb. mid engine sports car with a 300 HP engine and 300 lb-ft of torque.


Yeah Bill, but where do you hook up the camping trailer or boat and seat the 4 Hooters girls for the weekend???
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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TNRabbit

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Post Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:15 pm

Re: HELP > Newbie Seeking Advise To Test Carver Platinum Amazing

OBI56 wrote:
BillD wrote:My perfect car is a 3000 lb. mid engine sports car with a 300 HP engine and 300 lb-ft of torque.


Yeah Bill, but where do you hook up the camping trailer or boat and seat the 4 Hooters girls for the weekend???


That's when you use the TRUCK~
TNRabbit
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