Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!

The 5th Annual CarverFest Sep. 9th - 19th
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Toy Maker
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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by Toy Maker » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:07 pm

This is why I chose to go with the Transporter over building a dedicated audio PC.
The Transporter needs nothing but an el'crapo PC running somewhere on the network to transfer the tiles over the network. From there the Transporter does the rest. There just needs to be an OS running somewhere to let the Transporter access the files.

To be honest... I find it pretty stupid that SlimDevices did not incorporate a Linux based flash drive into the Transporter, to allow you to just plug in a hard drive via USB to the back of the unit. Then you wouldn't even need the PC.

Maybe I'll mod my Transporter... I need to open it up to replace the chrome rack handles with black ones soon anyway.

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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by OconeeOrange » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:55 pm

Toy Maker wrote:.

To be honest... I find it pretty stupid that SlimDevices did not incorporate a Linux based flash drive into the Transporter, to allow you to just plug in a hard drive via USB to the back of the unit. Then you wouldn't even need the PC..
The best thing about Linux is that it is free. Users like to tell you they use it too feel superior.

I keep up with it as a hobby. Compared to PC and MAC, it is a joke.

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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by BillD » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:03 pm

I worked on a mainframe that ran Multics, which was the inspiration for UNIX which was the inspiration for Linux. Everything was command line interface. Tedious, but it got the job done.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by OconeeOrange » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:06 pm

BillD wrote:I worked on a mainframe that ran Multics, which was the inspiration for UNIX which was the inspiration for Linux. Everything was command line interface. Tedious, but it got the job done.
It works well, but not for the masses as most can't use mainstream stuff.

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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by Toy Maker » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:04 am

Got everything hooked up as it will be at the Fest, and will be running a few tests today. I will post my results later tonight.

Been streaming Pandora for the last 3 days, and have hardly had the TV on at all, "very odd for me" as I watch TV 24/7 most of the time.
God there is allot of music I have forgotten about out there... I love the fact that Pandora grabs all kinds of other shit from the same genre and plays it.

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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by OconeeOrange » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:01 pm

Toy Maker wrote: I love the fact that Pandora grabs all kinds of other shit from the same genre and plays it.
\:D/ \:D/

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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by Toy Maker » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:52 pm

Going to go make a couple new digital RCAs and A/B some wav file and their CDs.
Be back in a few hours to post again.

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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by Toy Maker » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:25 am

1st I will list all equipment used.

Proceed AVP Preamp
Logitech Transporter
Denon 2910 DVD Player
Lightstar Reference Amplifier
AL-III plus Speakers
JL Fathom Subwoofer F-112
All CarverAudio cables

Exact Audio Copy (EAC) bit for bit ripping software
Acer 8930 laptop to rip the CDs
Acer Home Server to store the files.
Linksys WiFi router to connect everything.


I ripped a few of my favorite CDs that I still had stashed away.
Most of the files that EAC made came out 100% bit for bit perfect.
There were however a few files that were 99.9 or 99.7 due to the CDs being old and scratched pretty badly.
After moving all the newly ripped files from my laptop over to the music server, I started listening.
I went right to tracks I knew really well, played a few of them, and just listened. After about a half hour, I put in the CD, and started to listen to it. I was listening for small nuances that I knew were in the songs and could pinpoint with the ripped file with no problem. I was checking to see if there were being played in the same place in the room.

Then we started switching back and forth while playing the same tracks on both units.
Knowing which source I was listening to, I thought I was hearing slight differences, and was sure I could tell the 2 apart.
Then I did it blind. I started both players, and had Alex switch them back and forth. Blindfolded, I had bo clue which was which... I was basically guessing.

So, the test seems to be EXTREMELY even if you ask me. I will be seriously impressed if anyone can tell me which is which. Not right off the bat, but I'd go as far as letting someone listed to the same tracks NOT blindfolded at first, and then blindfold them, and see if they can tell which source is playing.

After listening myself, I have absolutely no problem what so ever abandoning CDs forever.
Keep in mind, you HAVE to have an original CD in the beginning to rip your files from, or get already ripped files from some other source.

Can't wait to play at CarverFest !!!!!!

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Wait a minute!!

Post by treitz3 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:13 pm

I do reserve the right to change systems. Not the test equipment but the systems [speakers/amplifier/location] if I do not detect any difference one the first test on speakers I am not familiar with. You left that out, James. Not that I feel I will need it but we have been over this before behind the scenes numerous times.

Just wanted to point that out. :wink:
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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Re: Wait a minute!!

Post by OconeeOrange » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:32 pm

treitz3 wrote:I do reserve the right to change systems. Not the test equipment but the systems [speakers/amplifier/location] if I do not detect any difference one the first test on speakers I am not familiar with. You left that out, James. Not that I feel I will need it but we have been over this before behind the scenes numerous times.

Just wanted to point that out. :wink:
Good deal TOM.

Most of this post is about equipment worth thousands.

No one here could accuse us of being friends, but that could change.

You are still willing to show up with just your ears. I have made fun of that, but now I cannot as only displays of courage makes me cry in a movie.

I now find my self wanting the man to win over the machine.

Too that end, you should insist that all tunes be played over a player you are familiar with. It is the only fair way.

Check back a few posts on how to do that in a fair way none could object too.

I am pulling for you. On the surface you come across as an asshole, but now as you back it up -- I was wrong about you.

So, we should make the test fair.

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Big -vs- little change...

Post by treitz3 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:54 pm

The players I am familiar with will not work for this test. Even though I am using my own and possibly others. I prefer tubes. Tubes will not be used. Digital out is what will be used. The transport is all I am going to notice a difference in. [supposedly only that and jitter possibly...along with the oversampling rate]

The speakers, location and amplifier changes are just there for reserve. That's all. :wink:
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by vigotone » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:33 pm

I know I'm late to the party, but I prefer a CD ripped to my Mac Mini and played back via USB -> Lindemann Asynchronous USB DAC -> AVR (via high quality IC's) than from the same CD in my Oppo BDP-83 connected to the AVR via HDMI. I'm sure it's because of the dedicated DAC, which is far superior to the DAC in my Denon AVR.

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Re: Big -vs- little change...

Post by OconeeOrange » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:56 pm

treitz3 wrote:The players I am familiar with will not work for this test. Even though I am using my own and possibly others. I prefer tubes. Tubes will not be used. Digital out is what will be used. The transport is all I am going to notice a difference in. [supposedly only that and jitter possibly...along with the oversampling rate]

The speakers, location and amplifier changes are just there for reserve. That's all. :wink:
Good deal--

You are out to prove your ears can detect components.
I hope you can.

As to ripped as opposed to CD - nothing will be proved in the test.

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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by Toy Maker » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:04 am

Not a problem Tom.

I know we said on the phone, we should move the test euipment to a couple different cabins, and try it.

Also... The people over on "the other" forum are telling me to go as far as to NOT use wav files, and use FLAC files, that you won't be able to tell the difference with them either. So I may go ahead and rip your CD twice in 2 different formats. We can do that after you do the wav files. If you can't tell which is which with the wavs, we'll switch over to the FLAC copies and try again.

And again OO, I don't care who's transport we use, as long as it has a digital RCA output.

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Re: Ripped Audio vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet

Post by AlexSauter » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:15 am

I know I look like this when Tom gets into his technical end of stereo and stuff...

Image

...but, I can understand the concept that no matter what digital CD player we use, we should not hear a difference (or at least not one large enough to matter!!)

Sure, if we switch the amp or the speakers or the location, or use an Anolog source there will be a change in the "voice" of the music, but that's not what we are testing!!!










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