Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Sunfire Home Audio (Stereo) Discussions and Questions
User avatar
Magnaryder
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 3015
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:00 am
Location: Bucyrus, Ohio

Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Magnaryder » Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:51 pm

In my quest for better sound through correct system set-up I did some research on my phono cart and found it needs 400-500pf of loading. Anyone know how to accomplish this? Looking around the net I've noticed the BigDog(big$$$) phono pres have switchable capacitance and resistive loading.

I've installed 3 deParavicini EI 7DJ8s on the main board and 4 on the phono board. I still have the stock 12AX7s on the phono board. How significant could a tube change here be?

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

"Racing is life, the rest of the time you're just sitting around."-Steve McQueen

User avatar
kingman
(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs
Posts: 6392
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: Upstate South Carolina

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by kingman » Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:38 pm

I don't know but am interested in your findings Ray. I'm plannning a tube swap soon and have some gold pin Amperex. Wondering the same in the phono stage. :-s
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!

User avatar
Zoot Horn
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 3569
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:26 pm
Location: 4th Tower of Inverness

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Zoot Horn » Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:51 pm

kingman wrote:I don't know but am interested in your findings Ray. I'm plannning a tube swap soon and have some gold pin Amperex. Wondering the same in the phono stage. :-s

Are these the ones that I hooked you up with 2 years ago?

User avatar
kingman
(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs
Posts: 6392
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: Upstate South Carolina

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by kingman » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:34 pm

Zoot Horn wrote:
kingman wrote:I don't know but am interested in your findings Ray. I'm plannning a tube swap soon and have some gold pin Amperex. Wondering the same in the phono stage. :-s

Are these the ones that I hooked you up with 2 years ago?
I knew your memory was that of an elephant!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!

User avatar
Zoot Horn
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 3569
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:26 pm
Location: 4th Tower of Inverness

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Zoot Horn » Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:54 pm

I can't decide if you should be ashamed ,,or,,just too much gear--Happy Holidays to you and Tammi. Pm me your addy--- I'll send you some special white gloves,,if and when you decide to pop em' in. =D>

User avatar
kingman
(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs
Posts: 6392
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:10 pm
Location: Upstate South Carolina

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by kingman » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:50 pm

Zoot Horn wrote:I can't decide if you should be ashamed ,,or,,just too much gear--Happy Holidays to you and Tammi. Pm me your addy--- I'll send you some special white gloves,,if and when you decide to pop em' in. =D>
George...thanks for the offer but I'd rather see your magic walk through the screen door....I did that also last year BTW!!!! :shock: :lol:
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!

User avatar
Zoot Horn
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 3569
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:26 pm
Location: 4th Tower of Inverness

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Zoot Horn » Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:54 pm

kingman wrote:
Zoot Horn wrote:I can't decide if you should be ashamed ,,or,,just too much gear--Happy Holidays to you and Tammi. Pm me your addy--- I'll send you some special white gloves,,if and when you decide to pop em' in. =D>
George...thanks for the offer but I'd rather see your magic walk through the screen door....I did that also last year BTW!!!! :shock: :lol:

I got caught doing alot of things last year too.

User avatar
radioeng2
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 2700
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:06 pm
Location: E TN

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by radioeng2 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:06 pm

Magnaryder wrote:In my quest for better sound through correct system set-up I did some research on my phono cart and found it needs 400-500pf of loading. Anyone know how to accomplish this? Looking around the net I've noticed the BigDog(big$$$) phono pres have switchable capacitance and resistive loading.
ray
Ray the capacitance effects high freq peaking. I used to use a test records and do sweeps and dial in the capacitance while watching the HF response.

In you want to do it with numbers, then you want to know how much capacitance the input presents along with your cabling. Then for neutral freq response, you'd need to add that value. The easy way to do that is use a RCA T. On the extra arm add on a simple RCA male you've tagged an appropriate value cap on.

Before you bother, you need to run a sweep record and see what your response really is. Generally when people are going on and on about how a cartridge sounds, part of what they actually are referring to is how close the built in values match the cartridge. Loading is more than just resistance.

Changing tubes by the way is likely to also be slightly altering the presented capacitance. If you look at the spec sheet for tubes, you can see a listed input capacitance value for the grid.

Mark
I was there "At the Fest!" Hope you were too!

User avatar
frenchguy
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 2764
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 11:53 pm
Location: wisconsin

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by frenchguy » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:11 pm

yes you did george! :lol: maybe you & wayne can do a tandem screen door illusion @ CF14 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Carver Silver 7t mono blocks, Carver M-4.0t & 2 tfm 42,s. ct-6 & ct-17, sda390t,TX11 tuner, jolida jd 100A. JBL L96 & JBL 4401,s W/Ribbon Tweeters, Dared SL-2000A tube preamp, Dared MP-5BT Integrated vacuum tube amp, 2 sets of Carver Amazing Silver speakers, oak & black. Carver Cinema 5.1 subwoofer & Tesla audio Carverfest satellite ribbon speakers & stands & Douglas connection cables

User avatar
Snoop65
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 2716
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:04 pm
Location: A galaxy far far away

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Snoop65 » Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:13 pm

Ray there are small jumpers on the phono board you can move around to change the load. Also if you are using a moving magnet or moving iron cartridge you are listening through the 12ax7 tubes. The 3 6dj8/6922's at the rear are for the moving coil section. And you will hear a difference rolling tubes in the phono stage.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+Cayin CDT-17a =WOW!!!!!!

User avatar
Magnaryder
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 3015
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:00 am
Location: Bucyrus, Ohio

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Magnaryder » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:05 am

Vance thanks for the pointer. Looking for jumpers wouldn't have occurred to me.

I'm about a dumbass. I broke my own rule of never working on anything(particularly important on motorcycles) without a service manual. Anyone have a .pdf of the owners manual they could email me? Maybe I'll learn something new about my Sunfire pre.

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

"Racing is life, the rest of the time you're just sitting around."-Steve McQueen

User avatar
Snoop65
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 2716
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:04 pm
Location: A galaxy far far away

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Snoop65 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:16 am

Magnaryder wrote:Vance thanks for the pointer. Looking for jumpers wouldn't have occurred to me.

I'm about a dumbass. I broke my own rule of never working on anything(particularly important on motorcycles) without a service manual. Anyone have a .pdf of the owners manual they could email me? Maybe I'll learn something new about my Sunfire pre.

ray
I think you can download the manual from the other Carver forum. If not let me know i'll scan and upload mine.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+Cayin CDT-17a =WOW!!!!!!

User avatar
Magnaryder
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 3015
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:00 am
Location: Bucyrus, Ohio

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Magnaryder » Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:03 am

Snoop65 wrote:
Magnaryder wrote:Vance thanks for the pointer. Looking for jumpers wouldn't have occurred to me.

I'm about a dumbass. I broke my own rule of never working on anything(particularly important on motorcycles) without a service manual. Anyone have a .pdf of the owners manual they could email me? Maybe I'll learn something new about my Sunfire pre.

ray
I think you can download the manual from the other Carver forum. If not let me know i'll scan and upload mine.
I found the manual and printed a copy of it. Thanks Vance!

Looks like changing the 12AX7s will yield the best results.

Suggestions anyone? I think I will try some vintage 12AU7s I have from the late 50s if I read the date codes correctly.

ray

Buckeyes lost to Michigan State. They cost me alot of money. I would have been giving any takers Ohio State and at least 7 points against Florida State. I really wanted to watch FSU humiliate them. DAMN!!!! I made a bunch the last time these 2 played.
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

"Racing is life, the rest of the time you're just sitting around."-Steve McQueen

User avatar
MRHP
SILVER-7t
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:36 pm
Location: Buzzard Creek Ky

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by MRHP » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:50 am

Ray you should definately roll some tubes. If you will pm me your address I will send you a few selections to try out and see whay you like.

BTW you are on the right track with 1950's 12au7's. You will lose some gain but some of the 12AU7's sound awesome. Dont forget that a 5751 will also work in that socket.
TFM-75 serial #0001
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0002
Cherry/260wpc Mono Blocks
Lightstar Reference
Sunfire Series II 625x2
Carver 490t
OPPO-103
Lucas Labs CF-14
Sunfire Tube pre
DENON DP-62L TT
DUAL CS 5000 TT
DQ-20's
Tesla CF-15 speakers
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65

User avatar
BrianT
Pair of Silver Sevens
Posts: 1865
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by BrianT » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:05 am

Magnaryder wrote:Vance thanks for the pointer. Looking for jumpers wouldn't have occurred to me.

I'm about a dumbass. I broke my own rule of never working on anything(particularly important on motorcycles) without a service manual. Anyone have a .pdf of the owners manual they could email me? Maybe I'll learn something new about my Sunfire pre.

ray
Ray

Where you a sleep when we where talking on the phone, I told you to set the jumpers to 47K on the board
also my buddy Mike told you the same.

Brian
VPI Classic Turntable (black)
Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge
Devialet 440PRO Mono Blocks
Audioprana SP/DIF-AES/EBU cable
Auralic Aires G2 Music Server
Audience AU24 USB cable
B&W 803D3 Speakers (black)
Auditorium 23 Speaker Cables
Raysonic CD-168 CDP (silver)
Carver TX11

Post Reply

Return to “Sunfire Home Audio”