Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Sunfire Home Audio (Stereo) Discussions and Questions
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MRHP
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by MRHP » Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:25 am

BrianT wrote:
Magnaryder wrote:Vance thanks for the pointer. Looking for jumpers wouldn't have occurred to me.

I'm about a dumbass. I broke my own rule of never working on anything(particularly important on motorcycles) without a service manual. Anyone have a .pdf of the owners manual they could email me? Maybe I'll learn something new about my Sunfire pre.

ray
Ray

Where you a sleep when we where talking on the phone, I told you to set the jumpers to 47K on the board
also my buddy Mike told you the same.

Brian
:lol: :lol: :lol: Definately listen to BrianT....he has helped me get my TT performing very well with the "little things" that I know nothing about.
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Snoop65
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Snoop65 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:30 pm

Ray I tried 12au7's in the Sunfire (thanks again Eric) and they didn't sound good. Give them a try to see for yourself but stick with 12AX7's and 5751's
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by radioeng2 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:55 pm

I do not go along with the idea that you can sub back and forth between AU's and AX's. Though they do have the same base pin out, they are different tubes with all different specs.

Any circuit optimized for one just isn't right for the other. They have different numbers for a reason. You may do fine at times and have nothing yield it's magic smoke but I don't know that's a guarantee. But a circuit for one isn't a circuit setup for the other. Just my opinion.

Typical numbers for a 12AU7
Class A Amplifier
Source ............................... RCA RC-15 - 1947
Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
Grid No. 1 Voltage ............................-8.5 V
Amplification Factor .......................... 17
Plate Resistance (approx) ..................... 7.7K Ω
Transconductance .............................. 2200 µ
Plate Current ................................. 10.5 mA

Typical numbers for a 12AX7
Class A Amplifier
Source ........................................ GE - 1973
Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
Grid No. 1 Voltage ............................ -2 V
Amplification Factor .......................... 100
Plate Resistance (approx) ..................... 62.5K Ω
Transconductance .............................. 1600 µ
Plate Current ................................. 1.2 mA

Mark
I was there "At the Fest!" Hope you were too!

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Magnaryder
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Magnaryder » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:27 pm

radioeng2 wrote:I do not go along with the idea that you can sub back and forth between AU's and AX's. Though they do have the same base pin out, they are different tubes with all different specs.

Any circuit optimized for one just isn't right for the other. They have different numbers for a reason. You may do fine at times and have nothing yield it's magic smoke but I don't know that's a guarantee. But a circuit for one isn't a circuit setup for the other. Just my opinion.

Typical numbers for a 12AU7
Class A Amplifier
Source ............................... RCA RC-15 - 1947
Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
Grid No. 1 Voltage ............................-8.5 V
Amplification Factor .......................... 17
Plate Resistance (approx) ..................... 7.7K Ω
Transconductance .............................. 2200 µ
Plate Current ................................. 10.5 mA

Typical numbers for a 12AX7
Class A Amplifier
Source ........................................ GE - 1973
Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
Grid No. 1 Voltage ............................ -2 V
Amplification Factor .......................... 100
Plate Resistance (approx) ..................... 62.5K Ω
Transconductance .............................. 1600 µ
Plate Current ................................. 1.2 mA

Mark
I reckon I'll wait until I get some proper tubes, 'cause I really don't want to let the magic smoke out of my pre. There are places on the web that show the 12au7s can replace the 12ax7s. This ain't one of those circumstances. Thanx Mark!!

ray

It would REALLY suck to kill 2 pres in one year.
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Zoot Horn » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:56 pm

Markie gives good advice and had a good ear to boot! Man,,I'm really nice today-- must be the Christmas decorations that I had to retreive today.

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BrianT
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by BrianT » Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:42 pm

Magnaryder wrote: It would REALLY suck to kill 2 pres in one year.
Ray

I do agree with you, that would not be a good idea

Brian
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MRHP
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by MRHP » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:09 pm

radioeng2 wrote:I do not go along with the idea that you can sub back and forth between AU's and AX's. Though they do have the same base pin out, they are different tubes with all different specs.

Any circuit optimized for one just isn't right for the other. They have different numbers for a reason. You may do fine at times and have nothing yield it's magic smoke but I don't know that's a guarantee. But a circuit for one isn't a circuit setup for the other. Just my opinion.

Typical numbers for a 12AU7
Class A Amplifier
Source ............................... RCA RC-15 - 1947
Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
Grid No. 1 Voltage ............................-8.5 V
Amplification Factor .......................... 17
Plate Resistance (approx) ..................... 7.7K Ω
Transconductance .............................. 2200 µ
Plate Current ................................. 10.5 mA

Typical numbers for a 12AX7
Class A Amplifier
Source ........................................ GE - 1973
Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
Grid No. 1 Voltage ............................ -2 V
Amplification Factor .......................... 100
Plate Resistance (approx) ..................... 62.5K Ω
Transconductance .............................. 1600 µ
Plate Current ................................. 1.2 mA

Mark
Hey Mark could you post the specs for 5751's also? Pretty big differences in the the AU and AX tubes. I have used the AU in my AX phono preamp and in the Baby Blacks which have AX sockets and had no problems with magic smoke thank God!!! The 1957 Brimar 13D5/12AU7 and Amperex 1959 ECC186/7316-12AU7 sound incredible in the Baby Blacks, I know that for sure and both of those tubes are very expensive and hard to find....glad they worked! [-o<
TFM-75 serial #0001
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0002
Cherry/260wpc Mono Blocks
Lightstar Reference
Sunfire Series II 625x2
Carver 490t
OPPO-103
Lucas Labs CF-14
Sunfire Tube pre
DENON DP-62L TT
DUAL CS 5000 TT
DQ-20's
Tesla CF-15 speakers
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65

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Snoop65
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Snoop65 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:54 pm

MRHP wrote:
radioeng2 wrote:I do not go along with the idea that you can sub back and forth between AU's and AX's. Though they do have the same base pin out, they are different tubes with all different specs.

Any circuit optimized for one just isn't right for the other. They have different numbers for a reason. You may do fine at times and have nothing yield it's magic smoke but I don't know that's a guarantee. But a circuit for one isn't a circuit setup for the other. Just my opinion.

Typical numbers for a 12AU7
Class A Amplifier
Source ............................... RCA RC-15 - 1947
Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
Grid No. 1 Voltage ............................-8.5 V
Amplification Factor .......................... 17
Plate Resistance (approx) ..................... 7.7K Ω
Transconductance .............................. 2200 µ
Plate Current ................................. 10.5 mA

Typical numbers for a 12AX7
Class A Amplifier
Source ........................................ GE - 1973
Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
Grid No. 1 Voltage ............................ -2 V
Amplification Factor .......................... 100
Plate Resistance (approx) ..................... 62.5K Ω
Transconductance .............................. 1600 µ
Plate Current ................................. 1.2 mA

Mark
Hey Mark could you post the specs for 5751's also? Pretty big differences in the the AU and AX tubes. I have used the AU in my AX phono preamp and in the Baby Blacks which have AX sockets and had no problems with magic smoke thank God!!! The 1957 Brimar 13D5/12AU7 and Amperex 1959 ECC186/7316-12AU7 sound incredible in the Baby Blacks, I know that for sure and both of those tubes are very expensive and hard to find....glad they worked! [-o<
Should be almost the same as a 12AX7 just lower gain. A 5751 is a military version of the 12AX7
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+Cayin CDT-17a =WOW!!!!!!

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Magnaryder
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Magnaryder » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:22 am

BrianT wrote:
Magnaryder wrote:Vance thanks for the pointer. Looking for jumpers wouldn't have occurred to me.

I'm about a dumbass. I broke my own rule of never working on anything(particularly important on motorcycles) without a service manual. Anyone have a .pdf of the owners manual they could email me? Maybe I'll learn something new about my Sunfire pre.

ray
Ray

Where you a sleep when we where talking on the phone, I told you to set the jumpers to 47K on the board
also my buddy Mike told you the same.

Brian
I was awake...smartass. I didn't realize you and Mike meant jumpers as I didn't see any when I've had the top off. I'll look closer the next time I go in. Thanks for taking the time out of your meeting to call me back and thank Mike for his time also.

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

"Racing is life, the rest of the time you're just sitting around."-Steve McQueen

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BrianT
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by BrianT » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:36 am

Magnaryder wrote: Brian
I was awake...smartass. I didn't realize you and Mike meant jumpers as I didn't see any when I've had the top off. I'll look closer the next time I go in. Thanks for taking the time out of your meeting to call me back and thank Mike for his time also.
ray[/quote]

Ray

Glad you found them, by now you should have noticed that there are 2 sets of jumpers (J6 & J9)
one for the MM Cart & one for the MC Cart.
As you have a Shure V15 MM set them both to 47K (as I can not remember witch is the MM set)
Glad we could help, hope it all works out OK.

Brian
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radioeng2
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by radioeng2 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:52 am

MRHP wrote:Hey Mark could you post the specs for 5751's also? Pretty big differences in the the AU and AX tubes. I have used the AU in my AX phono preamp and in the Baby Blacks which have AX sockets and had no problems with magic smoke thank God!!! The 1957 Brimar 13D5/12AU7 and Amperex 1959 ECC186/7316-12AU7 sound incredible in the Baby Blacks, I know that for sure and both of those tubes are very expensive and hard to find....glad they worked! [-o<
5751's just say "see 12AX7". They're just a military (read hardened and tested) version of the 12AX7.

With regards to the nice and pricey tubes, that's why I bring it up. Running a really good tube in a circuit with inappropriate voltages present seems like a shame. If you note, the 12AU7 is capable of a lot more current. That means any situation where they're using it running hotter, you drop in a 12AX7 and you may burn it up. It isn't made to run that much plate current.

Mark
I was there "At the Fest!" Hope you were too!

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BrianT
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by BrianT » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:34 pm

Ray

I just checked the wiring diagram for the Sunfire Pre to find.
J6 is for the MC left hand side and J9 is for the MC right hand side
It looks like there is no adjustment for the MM side.
Tube 1,2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 are for the MC side
The MM uses only tube 4 (12AX7) tube 5 (12AX7) tube 6 (6922)
PM me you Email address and I will send you the wiring diagram.

Hope this helps Brian
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by Magnaryder » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:05 pm

BrianT wrote:Ray

I just checked the wiring diagram for the Sunfire Pre to find.
J6 is for the MC left hand side and J9 is for the MC right hand side
It looks like there is no adjustment for the MM side.
Tube 1,2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 are for the MC side
The MM uses only tube 4 (12AX7) tube 5 (12AX7) tube 6 (6922)
PM me you Email address and I will send you the wiring diagram.

Hope this helps Brian
Thanks Brian
pm sent
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

"Racing is life, the rest of the time you're just sitting around."-Steve McQueen

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BrianT
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by BrianT » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:48 pm

Magnaryder wrote: Thanks Brian
pm sent
Ray

Did not get your PM with your Email address, please resend

Brian
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BrianT
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Re: Cartridge loading the Sunfire Tube Pre

Post by BrianT » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:02 am

BrianT wrote:
Magnaryder wrote: Thanks Brian
pm sent
Ray

Did not get your PM with your Email address, please resend

Brian
Email sent

Brian
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