Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Sunfire Home Audio (Stereo) Discussions and Questions
Carv-it-up
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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by Carv-it-up » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:26 pm

I failed to mention I have a series II Sunfire amp & not the original version. My over site. #-o
Two Signature Cinema Grand Series II amplifiers (both are used in bi-amping my Infinity IRS Beta speakers)
Cherry 180's (use them off & on to power the mids/highs tower of IRS Beta speakers)
Sunfire Signature 600~Two amplifier (used on Thiel CS5i)
Carver TX-12 tuner
Own & working, but not in use right now - Sunfire Series II amplifier + two Carver M500t MKII amplifiers + Sunfire Classic Vacuum Tube Preamplifier preamp w/ phono & remote.

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by Carv-it-up » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:45 pm

Finally made it home from my daughters volleyball practice. The Absolute Sound issue 139 Dec 2002/Jan 2003 is the magazine that has the review of the Sunfire Sig Series II amp. It states on page 95 at the bottom, that the Shaker Boxes were used at 0.5 ohms and the amp(s) worked fine.

For those who have or had the Sunfire Sig series II or the 3rd version, have you ever known them to buckle under heavy 1 ohm or lower ohm load pressure? Just asking because I don't know.
Two Signature Cinema Grand Series II amplifiers (both are used in bi-amping my Infinity IRS Beta speakers)
Cherry 180's (use them off & on to power the mids/highs tower of IRS Beta speakers)
Sunfire Signature 600~Two amplifier (used on Thiel CS5i)
Carver TX-12 tuner
Own & working, but not in use right now - Sunfire Series II amplifier + two Carver M500t MKII amplifiers + Sunfire Classic Vacuum Tube Preamplifier preamp w/ phono & remote.

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by Martin1970 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:57 pm

Carv-it-up wrote:Finally made it home from my daughters volleyball practice. The Absolute Sound issue 139 Dec 2002/Jan 2003 is the magazine that has the review of the Sunfire Sig Series II amp. It states on page 95 at the bottom, that the Shaker Boxes were used at 0.5 ohms and the amp(s) worked fine.

For those who have or had the Sunfire Sig series II or the 3rd version, have you ever known them to buckle under heavy 1 ohm or lower ohm load pressure? Just asking because I don't know.
There's this from the other forum, however I think it's about the stereo Sunfires:

"It's not that the Sunfire/Lightstar tracking-down converter can't run the kappa 9, since it's designed to be an ideal voltage source (doubling current as impedance halves)

It's more that the set point for the current limiting isn't low enough for the kappa 9. You might want to look into the 'Apogee' mod for the sunfire; it relaxes the current protect curcuit so the power supply can still operate into even 0.5Ω loads (like the Apogee Scintilla)."

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by Carv-it-up » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:55 am

I decided I'm not going to run the Sunfire Sig CG amps at 1 ohm when I still have the seemingly better option to power each of the 8 sub directly with the two SS CG. Thinking back, didn't someone try three pairs of Carver speakers on 1 set of stereo taps on their Sunfire Seven~400 @ one of the Caarverfest? I want to say it was around 08 or 09. Now that would be a serious test for low impedance. I'm not saying the Sunfire would defeat the Lightstar, but that would test the strength/balls of the Sunfire in as far as capability in the low impedance range I think. In all fairness, if that 3 speaker pair thing happened, I wasn't there and wouldn't have a clue as to how loudly the music was playing in that listening session to challenge the amp at that low impedance.
Two Signature Cinema Grand Series II amplifiers (both are used in bi-amping my Infinity IRS Beta speakers)
Cherry 180's (use them off & on to power the mids/highs tower of IRS Beta speakers)
Sunfire Signature 600~Two amplifier (used on Thiel CS5i)
Carver TX-12 tuner
Own & working, but not in use right now - Sunfire Series II amplifier + two Carver M500t MKII amplifiers + Sunfire Classic Vacuum Tube Preamplifier preamp w/ phono & remote.

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by TNRabbit » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:31 am

That would be MY 400x7--that happened at CarverFest '07. We ran it EXTREMELY CRAZY loud with no shut down, noticeable distortion, or excessive heat.

Realize that the average electrical voltage there is 128 volts, so you've got some extra oomph there that you wouldn't normally find.

EDIT: A conservative calculation gives that an approximate 1.4 Ω load.


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Last edited by TNRabbit on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:46 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by frankieD » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:07 pm

frankieD wrote:
Carv-it-up wrote:No I cannot power each sub separately. What I could do later on down the road is wire each of the 4ohm subs in parallel to produce and one ohm load to the one channel that I'm using from my cinema grand amps. I was just in hopes that it would be an easier route bridging amplifier. What I would like to know is with a one ohm load will the sound change? I believe I read somewhere that the lower the impedance, with woofers, the muddier the sound.
A "one ohm load" will pretty quickly produce the sound of an amp burning up.


Let me clarify... the above statement was an "opinion" and apparently not a fact.

Yes...I was wrong!!

Don't be shocked as it is NOT the first time.

It has happened before...back in 67 or 68 I think it was.

I was sure I wouldn't like grass but.....I was wrong.

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by TNRabbit » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:49 pm

Frank, you're funny~ :lol: =D>



To clarify, the lower the impedance load, the more an amp struggles. You can also get increased distortion & in my experience, a flabbier, less "tight" bass. Sunfire amps are exceptional in their ability to drive low R loads, but there's a limit. You can only get SO MUCH power from a 15 amp circuit~

IMO, the only good thing that comes from lower impedance loads is more power....but at a cost.
TNRabbit
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by hewlew1 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:47 pm

I was sure I wouldn't like grass but.....I was wrong





Frankied so we can assume your yard was either dirt or stone prior to you trying grass?
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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by kingman » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:54 pm

TNRabbit wrote:That would be MY 400x7--that happened at CarverFest '07. We ran it EXTREMELY CRAZY loud with no shut down, noticeable distortion, or excessive heat.

Realize that the average electrical voltage there is 128 volts, so you've got some extra oomph there that you wouldn't normally find.

EDIT: A conservative calculation gives that an approximate 1.4 Ω load.


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That was without active crossovers correct Gary?
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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by Magnaryder » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:04 pm

Carv-it-up wrote:I decided I'm not going to run the Sunfire Sig CG amps at 1 ohm when I still have the seemingly better option to power each of the 8 sub directly with the two SS CG. Thinking back, didn't someone try three pairs of Carver speakers on 1 set of stereo taps on their Sunfire Seven~400 @ one of the Caarverfest? I want to say it was around 08 or 09. Now that would be a serious test for low impedance. I'm not saying the Sunfire would defeat the Lightstar, but that would test the strength/balls of the Sunfire in as far as capability in the low impedance range I think. In all fairness, if that 3 speaker pair thing happened, I wasn't there and wouldn't have a clue as to how loudly the music was playing in that listening session to challenge the amp at that low impedance.
You're right, There is Lightstar....then everything else. I know it is stable to 0.7ohm. Mag hacks claim stability to 0.1 ohm. I would suspect vanishing reliability at some point around there. The BobFather remarked with 125volts on tap the Lightstar would match the Sunfire 600X2 for power output, but remember that's just HIS word. It seems to me you might try a VERY high power plate amp, something in the 1kw range. might be easier on the pocketbook.

ray
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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by Carv-it-up » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:19 pm

Does anyone have the schematics to show how to make the adjustments to the Sunfire amps to lower the Limiter that is set sorta too high? I heard there is/was a mod called the Apogee Mod. If I had that, my tech. & I could do it without having to ship the amp out of state.

Can someone see if Bob or someone who is close to Bob can talk with him to see if he can release the Mod info. and shoot it to me and/or post it here on the forum for all.
If Bob says there is some kind of legal thing that prohibits the release of that info. I would understand. I just would be grateful for someone checking with him to see?
Two Signature Cinema Grand Series II amplifiers (both are used in bi-amping my Infinity IRS Beta speakers)
Cherry 180's (use them off & on to power the mids/highs tower of IRS Beta speakers)
Sunfire Signature 600~Two amplifier (used on Thiel CS5i)
Carver TX-12 tuner
Own & working, but not in use right now - Sunfire Series II amplifier + two Carver M500t MKII amplifiers + Sunfire Classic Vacuum Tube Preamplifier preamp w/ phono & remote.

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by TNRabbit » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:20 pm

kingman wrote:
TNRabbit wrote:That would be MY 400x7--that happened at CarverFest '07. We ran it EXTREMELY CRAZY loud with no shut down, noticeable distortion, or excessive heat.

Realize that the average electrical voltage there is 128 volts, so you've got some extra oomph there that you wouldn't normally find.

EDIT: A conservative calculation gives that an approximate 1.4 Ω load.


Image
That was without active crossovers correct Gary?

Wayne, it was exactly as stated. 3 pair of Amazings: Platinums, AL-IIIs, and Originals--all with passive crossovers in place & all tied into the L/R MAIN outputs on the amp. All driven off the 2 main channels directly, in parallel. Like I said, @ 1.4 ohm load.
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by Carv-it-up » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:39 pm

Separately, are the impedance loads of these speaks pretty ruler flat like the Apogees are claimed to be or due they make drastic dips in impedance in their respective frequency ranges?
Two Signature Cinema Grand Series II amplifiers (both are used in bi-amping my Infinity IRS Beta speakers)
Cherry 180's (use them off & on to power the mids/highs tower of IRS Beta speakers)
Sunfire Signature 600~Two amplifier (used on Thiel CS5i)
Carver TX-12 tuner
Own & working, but not in use right now - Sunfire Series II amplifier + two Carver M500t MKII amplifiers + Sunfire Classic Vacuum Tube Preamplifier preamp w/ phono & remote.

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by TNRabbit » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Carv-it-up wrote:Separately, are the impedance loads of these speaks pretty ruler flat like the Apogees are claimed to be or due they make drastic dips in impedance in their respective frequency ranges?
They are pretty much a ruler-flat impedance load.
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.

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Re: Is it safe to bridge my Sunfire amp?

Post by MRHP » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:02 pm

The BobFather remarked with 125volts on tap the Lightstar would match the Sunfire 600X2 for power output
ray[/quote]

I remember him saying that also, must have been standing beside you or he repeated it in a different conversation.
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