Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Sunfire Home Audio (Stereo) Discussions and Questions
BobSmi57
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Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by BobSmi57 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:12 pm

Hi, guys. I recently purchased a Signature 600-two amp from BrianT after getting some advice from fellow members. I was using a Cinema Grand to power my Carver ALiii speakers and wanted to upgrade. I considered a Cinema Grand Signature model, but many said they have a similar sound, so I went with the stereo amp instead.
Now, for the sound. \:D/ \:D/
I was a little leery about buying the amp at first because it was a lot more money than the Cinema Grand and I didn't know if it was going to be worth the extra cost. I'm glad I took the advice of the guys on this forum.
I first listened to a few different CDs using the Cinema Grand. Music from Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, Luther Vandross, Marvin Gaye, Norah Jones, Anita Baker, Earl Klugh, Bob Baldwin, Joyce Cooling, and Peter White. Then I switched to the Signature 600-two and listened to the same music again. I was hoping for a little better sound quality and I got much more than I expected. The difference between the two amps was immediately apparent. The 600-two has a tighter, punchier bass, better extension and better detail in the high frequencies, and a more natural sounding midrange. The midrange is also very detailed. I can hear individual instruments better instead of them just blending together, as they did with the Cinema Grand. I guess that's why Bob Carver put the words Super Definition Power Amplifier on the front along with his name.
I also use a Sunfire True Sub Signature on each side for the deep bass. With the Cinema Grand I had the x-over set at 70 hz because I was never really happy with the bass output of the ALiiis. With the 600-two, the x-over on my TGP4 is set at 40hz because the bass output is now very good and the subs only need to handle the really deep bass.
I also tried using both the current and voltage speaker terminals. I preferred the current terminals with my system. They gave me a more natural midrange. The bass and treble were still excellent with either.
To sum it up, I'm very happy with this amp in my system.
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radioeng2
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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by radioeng2 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:26 pm

Nice. Nice. Nice!

Congrats on the good sound. That sure can be fun!

Several guys around here running similar situations and might even have some other tips.

Enoy!

Mark
I was there "At the Fest!" Hope you were too!

BobSmi57
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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by BobSmi57 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:40 pm

Thanks, Mark.

Bob

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BrianT
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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by BrianT » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:42 pm

Bob

I'm real glad that you are happy, as you have said they are a great 2 channel amp.

Brian
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frenchguy
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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by frenchguy » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:19 pm

congrats!! Im also running AL3,s but I am driving them with 2 tfm 42,s vertically bi amped for 1000 wpc!! they do a nice job also!! :shock: :D \:D/
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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by angelod307 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:49 pm

Now, glad to hear you liked the amp. Want a real Big Bang for under $150 bucks? Time to replace and clean and update the al3 passive crossovers. The mod, replace the big value electrolytic cap with a set of poly / Mylar caps of equal value. Parts express, two big caps side by side, hot glue in place. You will be floored with the midrange I tell you. Transparent does not even qualify the result.
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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by thuffman03 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:35 am

Congrats on the new amp. I have owned quite a few Sunfire amps and the 600x2 is the best of the lot.
Some cool Carver stuff!

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kingman
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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by kingman » Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:37 am

thuffman03 wrote:Congrats on the new amp. I have owned quite a few Sunfire amps and the 600x2 is the best of the lot.
On the ALIII's it's hard to beat...especially with a Vacumn Tube pre! 8)
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!

BobSmi57
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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by BobSmi57 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:21 am

BrianT wrote:Bob

I'm real glad that you are happy, as you have said they are a great 2 channel amp.

Brian
Yes I am very happy. Thanks again, Brian.

Bob

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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by BobSmi57 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:27 am

frenchguy wrote:congrats!! Im also running AL3,s but I am driving them with 2 tfm 42,s vertically bi amped for 1000 wpc!! they do a nice job also!! :shock: :D \:D/
Thanks, frenchguy. We need our systems for something to do in winter up North. Sounds like you have plenty of power, too.

BobSmi57
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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by BobSmi57 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:43 am

kingman wrote:
thuffman03 wrote:Congrats on the new amp. I have owned quite a few Sunfire amps and the 600x2 is the best of the lot.
On the ALIII's it's hard to beat...especially with a Vacumn Tube pre! 8)
Thanks to thuffman03 and kingman. Your opinions about these amps, along with BrianT, got me to buy the 600-two.

Bob

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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by BobSmi57 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:00 pm

angelod307 wrote:Now, glad to hear you liked the amp. Want a real Big Bang for under $150 bucks? Time to replace and clean and update the al3 passive crossovers. The mod, replace the big value electrolytic cap with a set of poly / Mylar caps of equal value. Parts express, two big caps side by side, hot glue in place. You will be floored with the midrange I tell you. Transparent does not even qualify the result.
Thanks, angelod307. That passive crossover update sounds really good. Have many guys on the forum done this update?
Is the info available on the Carver speaker sub-forum?

Bob

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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by Toy Maker » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:53 pm

BobSmi57 wrote:
angelod307 wrote:Now, glad to hear you liked the amp. Want a real Big Bang for under $150 bucks? Time to replace and clean and update the al3 passive crossovers. The mod, replace the big value electrolytic cap with a set of poly / Mylar caps of equal value. Parts express, two big caps side by side, hot glue in place. You will be floored with the midrange I tell you. Transparent does not even qualify the result.
Thanks, angelod307. That passive crossover update sounds really good. Have many guys on the forum done this update?
Is the info available on the Carver speaker sub-forum?

Bob
Or.... If you want to go "ALL-OUT"

Grab yourself one of our brand new 2-Way Active Crossovers, and rip all those power sucking passive components out all-together !!! The only downfall is the fact that you would need 4-channels of power.
Just ask Gary how HUGE of a change going Active can be ;)
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kingman
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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by kingman » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:36 pm

Toy Maker wrote:
BobSmi57 wrote:
angelod307 wrote:Now, glad to hear you liked the amp. Want a real Big Bang for under $150 bucks? Time to replace and clean and update the al3 passive crossovers. The mod, replace the big value electrolytic cap with a set of poly / Mylar caps of equal value. Parts express, two big caps side by side, hot glue in place. You will be floored with the midrange I tell you. Transparent does not even qualify the result.
Thanks, angelod307. That passive crossover update sounds really good. Have many guys on the forum done this update?
Is the info available on the Carver speaker sub-forum?

Bob
Or.... If you want to go "ALL-OUT"

Grab yourself one of our brand new 2-Way Active Crossovers, and rip all those power sucking passive components out all-together !!! The only downfall is the fact that you would need 4-channels of power.
Just ask Gary how HUGE of a change going Active
20140613_195120.jpg
2014-06-13 19.53.57.jpg
OK..pm me a price.
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!

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Re: Sunfire Signature 600-two vs. Cinema Grand

Post by OconeeOrange » Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:53 pm

There is a thread here somewhere as Gary put up photos and detailed his adventure working on his speakers. He is a handy guy and not just on audio [-X . (He has a good ear and we have actually tested that.) Gary goes into detail on many things he does, and I appreciate that. He hauled his reworked speakers a thousand miles to Carverfest in his Toyota. It was the year we could not play things in our cabin. 8-[

We did let it rip on the last Sunday morning when people had cleared out. The sound was incredible. (That was morning when no one was even yet drinking.)
Gary had rewired smaller speakers for surround sound to match and brought his Sunfire 400X7 amp and matching Sunfire preamp to 'move the room'. It did 'move the room' and the few people there. (If you were there, post your impressions).
My SACD of Albert King and one of Sarah Brightman never sounded near that before or since.

I think he called his thread here --> "Going Active".
Toy had the new experimental "BOB" Towers there which were exciting (and later improved a lot as these were experimental at the time), but Gary's older Bob Carver speakers were easily "Best of the Fest".
It was like they could not play loud enough to annoy #-o .

On my limited experience, would advise if you are tinkering with the Carver speakers, go 'active'.

As a side note back on topic, I run two SunFire 600X2 amps to power my current speakers. I have a few amps but really like the sound of these. I use one for the low end and one for the top end, so not run as mono blocks. I tried that, but like this. Running at 4 ohms they never blink. I can make waves on the lake if I turn them up. Bob is the man. These speakers can be tri-amped, but WTF? I think it sounds great as is. I am waiting on the Rabbit to hop in and tell me what to do next.

The 600X2 is my favorite amp.

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