Who has the earliest made amps?

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Miko1971
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Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by Miko1971 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:44 pm

I just picked up another 300 x 2 Sunfire with the serial number ending in 328 the first two are 95.

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MRHP
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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by MRHP » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:54 pm

Your beginning to talk my language. :D
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Baby Black Magic serial #0001
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Miko1971
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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by Miko1971 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:51 am

i noticed you have the first TFM-75...wow! how does it sound? I want to get a HT set up going and use Sunfire 300's. I have three now, three more to go!

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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by hewlew1 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:47 am

I have 5 300x2's keep up the good work you are on the right track.
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Robert R
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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by Robert R » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:52 am

Nice to have the first, in the sense of historical pride. But personally I'd much prefer one of the last, for practical reasons. Not just in audio, but for anything manufactured, the first is most likely to be flawed – loaded with “bugs”. Better to give them time to sort out all the problems, make all those engineering changes, whether written up or just silent improvements. With experience and practice they really get better at making them.

Of course, you have to consider that they might cheapen some things up, too, as they go along. But with Carver items they usually just brought out a new model rather than chisel on the making of an older one.

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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by Martin1970 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:21 pm

Robert R wrote:Nice to have the first, in the sense of historical pride. But personally I'd much prefer one of the last, for practical reasons. Not just in audio, but for anything manufactured, the first is most likely to be flawed – loaded with “bugs”. Better to give them time to sort out all the problems, make all those engineering changes, whether written up or just silent improvements. With experience and practice they really get better at making them.

RobertR
^^this^^
Also, I've heard that the best Sunfire gear is the newest stuff right before they moved production overseas.
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Miko1971
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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by Miko1971 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:06 pm

I seen a silver sunfire amp on ebay and it was made in China....how F'in sad.....

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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by MRHP » Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:38 pm

Miko1971 wrote:i noticed you have the first TFM-75...wow! how does it sound? I want to get a HT set up going and use Sunfire 300's. I have three now, three more to go!
The 75 sounds great, to this date I still consider it to have the best 3-D Holographic imaging of any Carver amp Ive owned, Im probably a little biased though because I purchased it brand new and I was promised serial #1 by Carver corporation because I had it on order for about 9 months an was getting agitated about waiting. The dealer got on the phone with Carver corp and told them I was canceling....Carver corp said if I would wait a few more weeks they would give me serial number #0001, I said forget the cancel Ill wait! A little back ground if you are interested.

I actually went in the store in Paducah, Ky. and canceled the order after a series of failed delivery promises from the dealer who was actually waiting on Carver to finalize the amp. They had one ready about 3 month prior but were not satisified with the quality of sound and performance. They went back to the drawing board and made a few changes until the product met Bobs standards. I distictly remember two different style looks coming out in audio magazines and did not know what the amp would look like until I opend the box. The other style had both power switches on the same side and both power meters in the middle and both gain meters on the opposite side.

I persoanall prefer the earliest version as I feel they have to perform to high standards to create a high quality image for sales purposes. The later ones can rest on the laurals of the early units and be tossed together and corners can be cut to up profits in my opinion. Just an opinion.

The Sunfire 300x2 is definately a superb amp BTW. I think they sound awesome!
TFM-75 serial #0001
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0002
Cherry/260wpc Mono Blocks
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Sunfire Series II 625x2
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DENON DP-62L TT
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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by nooshinjohn » Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:29 pm

Robert R wrote:Nice to have the first, in the sense of historical pride. But personally I'd much prefer one of the last, for practical reasons. Not just in audio, but for anything manufactured, the first is most likely to be flawed – loaded with “bugs”. Better to give them time to sort out all the problems, make all those engineering changes, whether written up or just silent improvements. With experience and practice they really get better at making them.

Of course, you have to consider that they might cheapen some things up, too, as they go along. But with Carver items they usually just brought out a new model rather than chisel on the making of an older one.

RobertR
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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by fill35U » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:35 pm

FWIW my two TFM-45's were made around early Feb '90. That family of amps went through a *lot* of tweaks over the production run. And therefore they *should* have gotten better at making them.

But I like my early amps better than the later ones I've seen. Sure, they didn't come with the tweaks, but the amp boards are connected by flexible wire jumpers. They're are much easier to work on- you can swing the boards out of the way. Later amps had plug-in connectors that tended to be flakey- mine are soldered solid. I've seen amps where the boards are bent to fit together- mine didn't have to be forced into a precision fit. And production eight months later was sloppy, with unacceptably long wires and haphazard routing- not to mention missed solder joints!

I've worked in many factories. Often the first production run has the greatest scrutiny. There may be more rejects, but the pressure is on, so there's more intense inspection. Later production may have improved designs, but at that point the incentive is to run faster or more smoothly. There's also a tendency to see how much degradation in quality can be accepted to lower costs.

Eric, do you remember which audio magazine showed the early version of the TFM-75? I'd love to see a pic of one. I've searched before to no avail.
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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by Chauss » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:59 am

nooshinjohn wrote:
Robert R wrote:Nice to have the first, in the sense of historical pride. But personally I'd much prefer one of the last, for practical reasons. Not just in audio, but for anything manufactured, the first is most likely to be flawed – loaded with “bugs”. Better to give them time to sort out all the problems, make all those engineering changes, whether written up or just silent improvements. With experience and practice they really get better at making them.

Of course, you have to consider that they might cheapen some things up, too, as they go along. But with Carver items they usually just brought out a new model rather than chisel on the making of an older one.

RobertR
It is sweeter still to have the one and only!
Would that not apply to "first" as well as "last" one made? :-s #-o :D
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Miko1971
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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by Miko1971 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:00 am

I tend to agree with the above statement, as the production costs are of a fixed value the thoughts of shareholders and profits allow the bean counters a crack in the door to "streamline production costs" shit gets made cheaper and the price goes up. Growing up in Michigan i have family who worked for the Big Three and small outfits that supplied components and what not. Plus, for what i do i see it first hand in how scrapping off any extra is S.O.P. Just like when Bob sold Sunfire...so in that respect, my quest for the 300's i want production dates from 95-97. Very cool Eric, thanks for sharing! Now, about those Lightstars?.........

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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by jjptkd » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:05 pm

Martin1970 wrote:
Robert R wrote:Nice to have the first, in the sense of historical pride. But personally I'd much prefer one of the last, for practical reasons. Not just in audio, but for anything manufactured, the first is most likely to be flawed – loaded with “bugs”. Better to give them time to sort out all the problems, make all those engineering changes, whether written up or just silent improvements. With experience and practice they really get better at making them.

RobertR
^^this^^
Also, I've heard that the best Sunfire gear is the newest stuff right before they moved production overseas.

This is true for the Sunfire line. Each Series had significant improvements over the previous designs including better parts used. Although there were several variations throughout the years with Sunfire there are really 3 significantly different designs in total.

1 The original 19" versions

2 The first 17" Series II version

3 The "Two," "Five," and "Seven" versions with the larger meter window.

This article talks about the original versus the Series II:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6 ... ature.html

"In October, 2001, I obtained the latest version of the Cinema Grand Signature. It has been upgraded with a larger power supply, including a changeover to a toroidal transformer (see photo below), making the amplifier heavier. The placement of the transformer has been changed as well in order to increase the signal to noise ratio."

"The result is a new rating of 425 watts RMS per channel into 8 Ohms, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, at 0.5% THD, making the Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature one of the most powerful multi-channel power amplifiers in the world.
In our tests, the hum and noise did indeed reach a new low level. It is extremely quiet. This is important with the incredible dynamic range capability that DVD-A and SACD have.
The original Signature was a fine product and a heck of a bargain. The updated version, at $3,750, is even better, and still an excellent buy."
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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by DaveS » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:45 pm

That would make it twice as sweet to own the only two!!!
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Re: Who has the earliest made amps?

Post by MRHP » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:17 pm

Miko1971 wrote:I tend to agree with the above statement, as the production costs are of a fixed value the thoughts of shareholders and profits allow the bean counters a crack in the door to "streamline production costs" shit gets made cheaper and the price goes up. Growing up in Michigan i have family who worked for the Big Three and small outfits that supplied components and what not. Plus, for what i do i see it first hand in how scrapping off any extra is S.O.P. Just like when Bob sold Sunfire...so in that respect, my quest for the 300's i want production dates from 95-97. Very cool Eric, thanks for sharing! Now, about those Lightstars?.........
Well the Lightstars are quite interesting themselves be cause BOTH of mine are serial number #0008????? There is a interesting discussion about them in the Lightstar forum. Also Snoop65 has serial number #0009 and found another formum member also with serial number #0009???? Love my Lightstars they are super clean, tight and accurate and loaded with detail although not quite as warm and subtle as say a 300x2 which has a more laid bak tube type presentation.

DaveS has Lightstar #0001 and said he was gonna give it to me on my birthday this year which is on March 8....just incase he needs a reminder.... :D
TFM-75 serial #0001
PT-2400 serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0001
Baby Black Magic serial #0002
Cherry/260wpc Mono Blocks
Lightstar Reference
Sunfire Series II 625x2
Carver 490t
OPPO-103
Lucas Labs CF-14
Sunfire Tube pre
DENON DP-62L TT
DUAL CS 5000 TT
DQ-20's
Tesla CF-15 speakers
Douglas Cables
OK ERIC, LET GO OF THE MOUSE AND BACK AWAY FROM YOUR PC WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR. NOW SLOWLY LAY FACE DOWN ON THE FLOOR!!!! - Snoop65

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