GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

8th Anual CarverFest. September 10th - 24th
Magnaryder
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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by Magnaryder » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:35 pm

Zoot Horn wrote:Well now that we have opened that can,,, could you pontificate on any other bang for the buck upgrades, such as?
stepped attenuators, silver hookup wire, Mills/prp/tantalum resistors. But....I've heard it sounds great! Why mess with success.

ray
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Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by Magnaryder » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:41 pm

Zoot Horn wrote:Yep,,the Rike caps are on my radar!

Question is,,will they fit?
I'll bring a hack saw along with the plumbers solder.....we'll make 'em fit. All kidding aside, when Mark gives us the chassis dimensions we'll know

ray
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Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

"Racing is life, the rest of the time you're just sitting around."-Steve McQueen

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Zoot Horn
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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by Zoot Horn » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:49 pm

Well Markie-- will they fit?

40x40x26 mm
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Zoot Horn
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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by Zoot Horn » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:51 pm

Great point Ray-- at this point ists caps,,, but I am gonna be needing some hookup wir for another project,, I was thinking the upocc copper-- 25.5 guage-- what say you Markie?

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radioeng2
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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by radioeng2 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:56 pm

Zoot Horn wrote:Well now that we have opened that can,,, could you pontificate on any other bang for the buck upgrades, such as?
Well it's kind of hard to pick for others what makes good bang for the buck. But I'd pull first for good caps. The best caps are no caps. But once you must have them, then first is ones right for the circuit they're in followed by the flavor of your choice.

Output DC blocking caps are them ones people tend to focus on first, but the cathode cap may be as or more important. We have both as candidates to change in this design. We've discussed them in places here, but I'll revisit them.

The output coupling cap should be about 3.3mfd. It should excede the voltage present on the B+, which is in this case 150vdc. So a 250 volt or higher is a good choice. Too high of a voltage some feel start to hurt sonics. Again, I'd think about lowering that output coupling cap value a bit if you're running vinyl and don't otherwise have a rumble filter. Maybe drop the 3.3 to a 2.2.

The cathode cap is a 220mfd at 100v. You can alter either value some ok. Lower end of voltage I'd want would be a 50v. But I'd be ok with a 65v and up. We'll have room hopefully to deal with about any physical size. Proper support for a cap is important. Some believe vibration prevention to be important as caps typically are microphonic. So raising voltage tends to increase size and increases challenge to keep them in a good mounting situation. I'd keep the cathode cap between about 150 and 470 or so.

After the caps, some folks will be looking at nice RCA's. Bang for the buck part gets tougher as the cost for a total of 12 chassis mount female connectors gets above cheap. But putting them in as you build sure would be less of a challenge than changing them later with everything in the way!

After that, I'd maybe look at a higher quality cathode resistor maybe. It's a 750 ohm, and I don't have figures in front of me, but the smallest size you'd want would be a 3 watt. I'm spec'ing a 5w Mills. So you'll have to top that for quality to improve there.

After that, places to look might be the volume attenuator or the source selector switch. I'm a believer in quality in both. I really like remote switching by HQ relays of audio but that's not an easy mod. Changing the pot is not terribly hard but what I'm putting in isn't too bad.

I'm thinking that we'll have enough room and the circuit complexity is simple enough that changing the caps and resistors and stuff might be something to do after you've gotten used to the unit and it's gotten familar with you too! The harder thing to change later would probably be the RCA's.

But as you heard it George, it wasn't really broken in and didn't yet have a few decent parts in it that even will be provided. And it was doing ok at that point. So not everyone needs to feel to bad about building as it is even. We all want an overachiever even if we can step it to a higher plain as we chose later.

Mark

PS...sure, good wire isn't going to hurt a thing! In a couple weeks, I could probably provide approx lengths and desirable colors.
I was there "At the Fest!" Hope you were too!

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Zoot Horn
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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by Zoot Horn » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:03 pm

Markie,, mills is good for me,,, since this will be my last pre,,I just want to install some boutique caps and wire,,, I could live with it stock,, you are da man!!!

Edit,,

Mark,, what guage hook up wire would you suggest?


My plans are to get mine built and enjoy it during the fest !

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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by Zoot Horn » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:54 pm

Ok,, I have got 2 different electrolytic ordered,,, 220 uf,, one is 100 volt and the other is a 450 volt.

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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by radioeng2 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Zoot Horn wrote: Edit,,

Mark,, what guage hook up wire would you suggest?


My plans are to get mine built and enjoy it during the fest !
George,

I've already got some nice quality shielded audio wire picked up for the audio in and out. There is minimal AC which should be a tad heavier guage (20-22 or so) which I'll provide for the power switch and then the filaments. Then there is ground wire to run a little around. A little DC maybe but not much. Then we got just a few inches of the grid and the plate side of the tube to the output cap. Really I can't think of any I'd be burning to put really good wire on in this case.

So if you're burning to get some, then maybe a few feet of black ground of about 22-24 guage. And some other yellow or blue or something of a similar guage or even smaller for the grid, the plate and cathode stuff. Can't be other than the AC twisted more than about 3-4 foot in it I wouldn't think. And on the audio, if you're going to better the shielded, low noise Mogami I've got, then another 3-4-5 foot there should cover from RCA's to the switch and the output side.

BTW...ground is in the current loop paths so it's not nothing as some assume. Zero volts isn't ever really zero.

Mark
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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by radioeng2 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:24 pm

Zoot Horn wrote:Ok,, I have got 2 different electrolytic ordered,,, 220 uf,, one is 100 volt and the other is a 450 volt.
OK. When you say two...I wondering.... Being stereo, we have two identical circuits to cover L and R. So you have to have the output caps times two and the cathode cap times two also.

The output cap at 450v is ok as long as we can fit it in....which shouldn't be too bad to do. Value again of the capacitance should be about 3.3. Right?

Then the cathode cap at 220@100v sounds great...as long as you have two. Unless you're going mono now to save money! :lol:

Mark
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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by angelod307 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:29 pm

I agree on the rca's. The ones used on the fest amps are not that great now on my first amp. They tarnished . Whatever gold plate it may have had , is gone. James has always been a fan of platinum I think because of the price and anti crud factor it had. My pennies worth.
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts

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Zoot Horn
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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by Zoot Horn » Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:10 pm

radioeng2 wrote:
Zoot Horn wrote:Ok,, I have got 2 different electrolytic ordered,,, 220 uf,, one is 100 volt and the other is a 450 volt.
OK. When you say two...I wondering.... Being stereo, we have two identical circuits to cover L and R. So you have to have the output caps times two and the cathode cap times two also.

The output cap at 450v is ok as long as we can fit it in....which shouldn't be too bad to do. Value again of the capacitance should be about 3.3. Right?

Then the cathode cap at 220@100v sounds great...as long as you have two. Unless you're going mono now to save money! :lol:

Mark
Than
k you Markie

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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by hewlew1 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:30 pm

Than
k you Markie

Quit smokin that shit George.
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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by Zoot Horn » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:26 pm

Fuc
K
You Harry

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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by frenchguy » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:47 pm

:lol: :lol: play nice boys! [-X soon we will all be neighbors again!! =D> \:D/
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Re: GIANT KILLER Preamp comes to CF 2014

Post by Zoot Horn » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:50 pm

You are right Al,,,Harry shall heretofore be known as. Pennsaltucky

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