CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations (LOCKED)

12th Annual CARVERFEST 2018 September 5th - 19th
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Shortcake
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Shortcake » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:38 am

Everyone is talking about open discussions. I didn't see anything within this thread that may have turned Mark off. But as we all know, and it has been mentioned here, private conversations take place outside of this forum. Everybody needs to search their memory for any comments which might have been made to set Mark off and if so, an apology forthcoming if they feel they stepped over that line. Mark isn't easily set off and riled. He has a very passive personality. So again, although we don't see something here, he must have been pushed pretty hard.

Open discussion? then keep it here for all to see and be able to partake without any judgements and misunderstandings. Fair???
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by frankieD » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:45 am

I don't know of any reason Mark decided to pass this year.

What I do know is that is unacceptable...Mark you have been a fixture ever since first met you and your fancy "these mist covered mountains" CD.

It wouldn't be the same without you !!

So Mark: Please come to the fest.

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by trav0810 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:04 am

Shortcake wrote:Everyone is talking about open discussions. I didn't see anything within this thread that may have turned Mark off. But as we all know, and it has been mentioned here, private conversations take place outside of this forum. Everybody needs to search their memory for any comments which might have been made to set Mark off and if so, an apology forthcoming if they feel they stepped over that line. Mark isn't easily set off and riled. He has a very passive personality. So again, although we don't see something here, he must have been pushed pretty hard.

Open discussion? then keep it here for all to see and be able to partake without any judgements and misunderstandings. Fair???
Open discussion does not necessarily mean public discussion. It means being open to hear and consider other ideas. When your general train of thought is that the discussion is closed, and you are not willing to reconsider your position, you have actually closed all means of discussion. I know that a few people, myself included, sent Mark private messages TRYING to discuss the rules, policies, procedures. Most of Mark's responses, if he responded at all, were much like Ray post on the subject. And that was basically, "we" Mark and Ray) feel that this is the best way. "We" need to be concerned with maximizing watersheds profits or else we risk losing our discounts. "We" you want to accommodate as many people as possible at the Fest. "We" want to see the membership grow.

So, the wishes and desires of Mark and, were placed above the wishes of other members. Mark was not willing to discuss these options nor was he willing to entertain any other ideas or opinions.

I personally called him out on the "we risk losing our bookings or discounts" claim as it had no basis. This is not peak season for watershed. They see an increased level of bookings during this period because of Carver Fest. They are already maximizing their profits for that time period, it is not our responsibility as customers to try to further maximize their profits at the risk of the experience and comfort of our own members. Marksville, and from my discussions with Ray Kama his as well, where to see the Fest grow. But when you have limited real estate, growth to capacity will only Force out people who have more limited funds. Either Mark, or Ray, could have opened at this up to the group to determine if everyone agreed, or not. But, when I mentioned this to Ray, his reply was "This isn't a democracy". So, it wasn't any particular person that drove off mark. It was his refusal to consider other options and opinions different than his own. Personally, I'm willing to abide whatever rules and regulation the group decides on, as long as it is not just decided by one or two members of the group.

I appreciate the people who came to bat for me. And I appreciate the the people who have posted to express their displeasure at Mark leaving. But no one told Mark to leave. No one cheated him out of his cabin. He was not evicted from the Fest.

If we are going to talk about all the slights and injustices of Carver Fest, perhaps we should also be addressing what happened to James and his family.

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Robert R » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:25 am

I have to talk with Bob Carver about amp kits soon, maybe today. So what should I say? He will be blissfully unaware of what's been going on here...
How do I explain to him that Mark won't be there, and why?

Before now I was trying to head Bob in the direction of making as many kits as there were buyers for. Just lately I feel that this is the exact opposite of where we should go - the fucking amp kits are killing us. Now I suggest that one kit for anybody who was there last year, or who planned (before Dec. !2) to come this year, is just right. That was pretty much Bob's original intention, anyway, so I think he would go for that. Final decision is his, obviously.

Bob frequently associates the word 'fun' with the Carverfest. I know he would hate to see Fest dissension or a major schism over this crap. It's not worth it.

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Magnaryder » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:42 am

Toy Maker wrote:I find it amusing that no one gave 2 shits when Ray and Mike decided that I wasn't welcome back in my own cabin after taking a year off, even after agreeing to it before I took the time off. But now that things might effect everyone, now we have a big problem.

Keep up the good work Ray. One big happy family right?
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by frenchguy » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:51 am

Robert R wrote:I have to talk with Bob Carver about amp kits soon, maybe today. So what should I say? He will be blissfully unaware of what's been going on here...
How do I explain to him that Mark won't be there, and why?

Before now I was trying to head Bob in the direction of making as many kits as there were buyers for. Just lately I feel that this is the exact opposite of where we should go - the fucking amp kits are killing us. Now I suggest that one kit for anybody who was there last year, or who planned (before Dec. !2) to come this year, is just right. That was pretty much Bob's original intention, anyway, so I think he would go for that. Final decision is his, obviously.

Bob frequently associates the word 'fun' with the Carverfest. I know he would hate to see Fest dissension or a major schism over this crap. It's not worth it.

RobertR
Robert, I wouldnt even mention this stuff to Bob, he doesnt need to hear this, as far as Mark goes, I believe he will be back, hopefully sooner then later, lets just go with that & hope for the best! [-o< as far as the amp kits, whatever Bob wants to do is fine with us, I am sure Mark would want one regardless if he comes to the fest or not 8-[ , lets hope he reconsiders & decides to come, until then lets just count him in & hope for the best! 8)
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by jjptkd » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:54 am

This amp build "at cost" is basically creating a huge financial incentive ($2000) for people to go to the fest if for no other reason but to cash in on said incentive. Maybe such large give aways should be kept in secret until much closer to the fest or once the bookings are already full.
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Robert R » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:53 pm

Al, I would be pretty irresponsible to not mention Mark's departure to Bob. Mark was to have been involved in the distribution of the kits, and now a new agent will have to be found in the immediate area of Watershed - somebody with a good-sized van and some safe storage space. But since you ask, I will hold off for a while on mentioning about Mark; hopefully you are right and he will sign back on. But at some point we'll have to face reality.

I too might at some point withdraw from my little roll. I absolutely abhor the idea of being put in a position where I have to play God in this kit thing; I won't do it. My original concept was just to be a communication time-saver for Bob, and I mean to keep it that way.

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Zoot Horn » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:58 pm

Folks,, not having made the last two fests,,I feel limited in saying anything,,, but please,,, talk to each other,, pick up the phone and work it out,, we have known each other too long , broke bread together,etc. Let’s all work together ,,we are bigger than this!!

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by hewlew1 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:01 pm

Travis people are talking about discussions but your snide comments like Marksville ,are entirely uncalled for to me it clearly indicates your level of immaturity and how little you know Mark. Makes me wonder what else you may have said and to whom. That may have made its way back to Mark.
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Zoot Horn » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:21 pm

We need to break out the peace pipe,, toke it and pass it on!
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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by trav0810 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:49 pm

hewlew1 wrote:Travis people are talking about discussions but your snide comments like Marksville ,are entirely uncalled for to me it clearly indicates your level of immaturity and how little you know Mark. Makes me wonder what else you may have said and to whom. That may have made its way back to Mark.
"Marksville, and from my discussions with Ray Kama his as well, where to see the Fest grow. "


That was actually a talk to text error. Looking at that sentence, it doesn't make any sense, this is what it was supposed to say.

"Mark's will, and from my discussions with Ray, his as well, were to see the Fest grow."

If you really want to discuss this, feel free to call me.

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Re: CarverFest 2018 Cabin Reservations

Post by Toy Maker » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:08 pm

trav0810 wrote: it is not our responsibility as customers to try to further maximize their profits at the risk of the experience and comfort of our own members.
It seems you and a few other members feel this way....
However, without knowing the behind-the-scenes discussions, details and agreements made with the owner of Watershed years ago, that statement is quite naive.
We as the Reservation Liaisons, ARE responsible to help Watershed fill the cabins to capacity. I'm not sure what you do and don't know about the discounts we get.
But here is a simple run-down of what we get for trying to help them keep the cabins filled, or at least the empty cabins to a minimum.

If you rent 3 nights, (the cheapest night) is free
If you rent 7 nights, (the 2 cheapest nights) are free.
If you rent 10 nights, (3 of the cheaper nights) are free.
Any nights after the initial 10 nights are billed at 1/2 price !

So, in the end, for those staying the full 14 days are actually getting 5 of your 14 nights for FREE !
If you don't see that as one hell of an incentive to help them fill the cabins as neatly and as organized as possible... WTH ?!?!


For now, I am closing this thread. I have started a new Cabin Reservations 2.0 thread so we can continue keeping track of who is where, without all the drama.
If ANYONE has ideas, concerns, complaints or just wants to rant, please do so in the Carverfest Cabin "Pecking Order" Revisited thread to discuss the issue. If any of this spills over to the new Reservations thread, I will just delete your posts. So please post accordingly.

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