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The GIGa Amp at CarverFest 07' WHAT WAS THAT ???

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Toy Maker

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Post Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:30 am

The GIGa Amp at CarverFest 07' WHAT WAS THAT ???

For those that had questions.... I decided to look it up, and find some specs on that GIGa amp I have. Here's what I found....

http://www.odysseyaudio.com/index.html

(My amp)
Interesting... if you read this page, they price their watts by the pound... WTF?

http://www.odysseyaudio.com/stratos.html
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Bound for Sound # 9904, Page 4:
Confusion: Is it Odyssey or is it ODL ?

About two years ago an affordable line of electronics emerged from the corporate shadows of Symphonic Line (of Germany) - the Odyssey Design Group (ODG). The Odyssey line of electronics showed an amp that promised stunning performance coming from one of the premier design teams in audio, at real world prices. In Chicago last June, Klaus Bunge was showing the newest of the amplifiers to be sold, and we reported on it in our Stereophile HI-FI 99 show report.

Now it seems that Dr. James Martin II, a former officer of ODG, started his own company which he initially called Odyssey Design Labs (ODL). One problem, ODG owned the trademark for "Odyssey", so this second company started by Martin took the name "ODL" and left it at that. The question became, what would ODL make and sell? Since Martin was familiar with the products designed by Symphonic Line for ODG, the new ODL simply went to the builder of the ODG products and had a few built for themselves. So now, the second company is marketing and selling the amplifier that Symphonic Line developed for the original ODG.

It should be obvious that the original ODG is very upset about the copycat amp from ODL, so they are doing something about it. First, a desist letter from ODG's attorney has been sent to ODL, a first step prior to the initiation of legal action for trademark infringement, breach of contract, breach of fiduciary duties, misappropriation o trade secrets, etc. Second, ODG has dropped the price of their products by almost 50 % by going direct. Hence, the Stratos stereo power amplifier now only costs $ 895, and the mono amps only $ 1,795. Mind you, the ODL and the much less ODG amps are exactly the same circuitry, made by the same manufacturer, but one costs much less than the other.
(This information was primarily derived from press releases sent to BFS by ODL, and the Odyssey Design Group. For more information, the companies can be contacted.)
Martin DeWulf from Bound for Sound has been forwarded all legal documentation prior to him publishing this very comprehensive report. Mr. DeWulf is an accomplished attorney himself, recognizing the legal details and the consequences of ODL's actions.
For months, Odyssey was holding back an official statement like this or the press release Mr. DeWulf referred to. However, unfortunately for us, the penalties for trying to be as discreet as possible about the situation with ODL., were mounting. Vicious rumors, misinformation, and confusion regarding our company and our products still exist, and we don't see any other way to set the record straight and to protect our livelihoods and track record of 12 years, than to release these statements.
The amplifier and preamplifier advertised and sold by ODL are unauthorized copies of our Symphonic Line designs. Again, neither Odyssey nor Symphonic Line authorized the sale of these designs as ODL products. These products currently bear the names ODL HT-2, HT-3, HT-5. The advertised multi-channel amplifiers also incorporate the same identical circuitry. Unfortunately, they are the exact same products as ours.
All legal situations aside, ODL still advertises and sells our products through their dealer network with the help of Bob Finch of Custom House. B. Finch is not only acting and profiting from ODL as a sales manager, but in addition, he is also a founding director of ODL's board of directors.
While ODL has been established just recently in March 1999, they've nevertheless established a dealer network based on the performance of the (our) products and a review of the amp (our amp) in Stereotimes. (see "Reviews"). If you've happened to audition the ODL products at a dealer, we'd like to invite you to compare them to the original Odyssey designs and purchase these products from us with confidence, considerable service and savings.
Lastly, all of us at Odyssey are truly saddened that we're forced to give these statements in public. However, due to the actions of ODL we have no other choice than to protect our interest, livelihood, and 12 years of hard work in this manner. We feel that you, the customer has the right to know where the products that you purchase come from. We certainly invite you to talk with us if you have any questions and to clear up any above mentioned misinformation. Furthermore, we don't want you to spend more than you should. The best value and price-performance ratio possible, this is after all why we started Odyssey.
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Post Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:49 pm

-that was 150wpc ???..............izzat possible ???

-i'll take the pink finish !!!..... :^o
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Post Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:02 pm

I dono.... I don't see the point of building a 55 pound mamoth amp, that's only 150wpc... does that sound right to amyone else?

I need a little more info on watts vs. current ???
I don't really understand the difference.
Is 150w like 300 if you are talking current? I just never read up on it to understand.
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maddmaxxx

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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:34 am

-mr bobp would know, how an 'alleged' 150wpc rated amp, sounded like 500wpc !
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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:22 am

Don't forget... the ODL was only running the (2) 12" subs....

Heres the specs on the sub...

MODEL (inches) (ohms) (watts) (dB 1w/1m) (Hz)
X12c 12 4 500 88.5 25-500

So, if that amp's only putting out 150w @ 8ohms, that means the amp's dpoing 300w @ 4 ohms... and the RMS is 500 on the jub, it wasn't even running at 1/2 of its capacity...

Damn, Mo' BETTA' BASS !!!!!
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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 pm

maddmaxxx wrote:-that was 150wpc ???..............izzat possible ???


interpreting and comparing power ratings can be difficult sometimes. power ratings can be truly meaningless if a standardized method of rating power is not used by the people who rated two different amps.

some people intentionally use poorly designed tests to inflate their rated power output, while other people use well designed tests that conservatively rate power output. it doesn't come as a surprise to me that any conservatively rated amp would sound louder than its ratings, or louder than an amp that is not conservatively rated. that could be what you're seeing here.

in general, i like to ignore specs that refer to vague concepts like "music power," "peak music power," "power for musically relevant time periods," or "borrowing between channels." (the Japanese stuff was rated in such BS fashions in the 1970s-80s. Carver was also one of the worst offenders with some of their meaningless power ratings.) an FTC-approved RMS power measurement is a lot more meaningful.

to me, what really matters is an amp's ability to perform sine wave drive into a purely resistive load for an infinite period of time. unfortunately, nobody in consumer audio rates their gear that way.
Last edited by bob p on Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:47 pm

on the subject of estimating that power will double for a SS amp as the load resistance decreases, i'd be cautious about using that approximation as a universally applicable rule of thumb. i've made that mistake before.

that's exactly how an amp should work if it had an infinite ability to deliver current in response to a decreasing load impedance. in reality, few amps are actually capable of doubling their power every time that the load impedance is halved, as the ability of the power supply to deliver current tends to limit the amp's ability to continually increase power to the load.

i think that the bottom line in a situation like that is to not assume that amplifier power will double as you cut the load impedance in half unless the amp's ratings specifically tell you that. some amps can do this, but other amps can't. the ones that can do it tend to be expensive. just to be safe, always check the manufacturer's specs.

BTW, I see that the Odyssey Stratos has 60 millifarads of PSU capacitance. That's an impressive figure!
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:40 pm

bob p wrote:
BTW, I see that the Odyssey Stratos has 60 millifarads of PSU capacitance. That's an impressive figure!



Wish I had some idea what that meant ?!?!?
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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:52 pm

lots of energy stored in the power supply so that the power supply rails don't sag under periods of peak demand.
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
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bob p

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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:36 pm

Toy Maker wrote:I dono.... I don't see the point of building a 55 pound mamoth amp, that's only 150wpc... does that sound right to amyone else?

it makes sense if you're talking about Class A operation. with Class A operation, heat dissipation is a major design constraint. to dissipate heat you either need to use active cooling (fans) or passive cooling (heatsinks).

think of it this way:

the amount of power you want to produce determines how many output transistors you'll need.

the number of output transistors determines how much heatsink you'll need.

heatsinks are heavy and cost money. extruded aluminum heatsinks are priced by the foot. they typically cost more than the power transistors.

power amps that produce lots of Class A power will require lots of heatsinks. they might as well be priced in terms of dollars per pound, as there's a good correlation between Class A power in watts, weight, and total cost.

50 lb isn't heavy. just for reference, i'm working on a 100W Class A tube amp, and the high voltage power transformer alone weighs in at 50 lb. that figure doesn't even include the weight of the filament transformers or the chokes. this amp has to be constructed on multiple chassis to make it manageable -- it easily has over 100 lb just in the iron.

nobody ever said Class A was efficient.
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:14 pm

BTW, I see that the Odyssey Stratos has 60 millifarads of PSU capacitance. That's an impressive figure!


Maybe. If the caps are large, which I believe they are, they will be slower than a series of smaller caps, which will be faster. I'll take the smaller, faster caps any day as long as the total capacity is sufficient.


IMO, comparing the weight of a SS amp and a tube amp is like comparing apples and oranges. Of course, the iron needed in tube amps will increase the weight. 55lbs. isn't up there with the big boy SS amps, but it's not lightweight either.
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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:29 pm

In case anyone is interested, I just found a site that seems to have a few on hand. Not bad @ $400
http://www.audioclassics.com/detail.php ... -2&nav=cat
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it... because nobody else will.

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SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
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bob p

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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:59 pm

F1nut wrote:Maybe. If the caps are large, which I believe they are, they will be slower than a series of smaller caps, which will be faster. I'll take the smaller, faster caps any day as long as the total capacity is sufficient.

i've never seen its innards, but i'd imagine that they're using an array of smaller caps in parallel to come up with the 60mF total. i can't see giant, custom paint-can style caps fitting in that amp's little footprint. the heatsinks that are used for the sidewalls take up an awful lot of space. of course, i could be wrong on that.

when you say "slower," do you mean "slower" as in the subjective HiFi term, or are you referring to an objective measurement of capacitor electrical properties? i just want to be sure that i understand what we're talking about.

IMO, comparing the weight of a SS amp and a tube amp is like comparing apples and oranges. Of course, the iron needed in tube amps will increase the weight. 55lbs. isn't up there with the big boy SS amps, but it's not lightweight either.

no doubt, apples and oranges. but how many high end tube amps have 50 lb just in the power transformer? i can't name one.

to me there is a the common thread between the apples and oranges comparison that makes the comparison useful. with a well designed Class A amp, cost is proportional to weight, which is determined by the desired power rating. this is true both for tube gear and for SS gear, though the power/weight coefficients are different for tube and SS gear.

you're right, its a good idea to throw aside the tube and ss comparison and just stick with SS to keep it simple. with Class A SS amps, power output and heat dissipation are inexorably intertwined. the power output similarly defines the mass of heatsink material and the mass of the chassis. power is proportional to weight. i guess someone might as well sell those amps by the pound.

with a Class G or H amp, heatsinks and massive chassis aren't needed, so power and weight aren't so closely related.
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:30 pm

Well, now you got me curious...
Never popped the lid on this thing before. Kinda disappointing, there really isn't much in there.


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Links to BIG PIX

http://www.carveraudio.com/images/ODL/P1010196.JPG
http://www.carveraudio.com/images/ODL/P1010198.JPG
http://www.carveraudio.com/images/ODL/P1010199.JPG
http://www.carveraudio.com/images/ODL/P1010200.JPG
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it... because nobody else will.

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
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bikerdude523

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Post Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:24 pm

Toy Maker wrote: there really isn't much in there.

Just some big ass honk-en transistors under those aluminum heat sinks!
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