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TFM-45 Problems???

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Dennis47

Newbie

Posts: 47

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:08 pm

Location: Indiana

Post Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:06 pm

TFM-45 Problems???

I recently received a TFM-45 via UPS Ground and found the amp
to have, what I believe, are several problems. I'm very confident
the amplifier was in excellent shape when sent as the previous
owner only sold it as he accquired a Lightstar Reference 2.0 amp.

First, the VU meter lights do not illuminate. I removed the cover
and examined the lamps to find one of the blubs has a broken
filament. Okay..no big deal....simple lamp replacements.

I then connected the amp to my C-4000t preamp, TX-12 tuner
and Polk SDA-2B speakers. The amp sounds great, but
demonstrates a few odd characteristics. When powered-on there
is a buzzing sound for about 2 seconds. The left channel seems to
be 5db +/- lower than the right channel. I had to adjust the preamp
balance control at 10:30 - 11 to achieve volume balance.
When powered-down the amp produces a shuttering sound
(Shssss-Thut-tut-tut-tut-tut....tut....tut) starting in the right
channel and migrating to the left channel. Also, when powered-off,
the VU meters jump to a 5-8 watt reading and then slowly (10-15
seconds) dissapate to zero with the right channel meter returning
to zero faster than the left channel.

Are these symptoms normal for a TFM-45?
Can anyone give me a general diagnosis?
I'm concerend that the package had impact during shipping and
the amp needs to vist Rita's repair shop. If so, I would need to
file a damage claim with UPS.

What do you think????? #-o #-o #-o
Last edited by Dennis47 on Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
PL 4000 II / PL 400 II (2) / PL 5100 II / PL 6000 II
PL 7000 II / PL 1000 w/JVD mod (2)
Carver C-1 / C-11 / C-4000t /M-1.0t (MKII opt 002)
M-1.5t (2) / TFM-15 / TFM-22 (2) / TFM-24 (2)
TFM-45 / HR-752 / DPL-33 / TD-1400 / TD-1700
TDR-2400 / TX-12 / DTL-100 / SDA-490t
Thorens 316 / Roberts 770X (2) / ADC SS3 MKII
Polk SDA SRS / Polk SDA SRS 2.3
Polk SDA-2B (XO upgrade)
Polk Monitor 12 & Monitor 5jr.
Polk Monitor 10B
Polk Monitor 7C (XO upgrade)
Polk Monitor SW6 sub
<<

BillD

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 7295

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:58 pm

Re: TFM-45 Problems???

Well, a couple of things. First the amp probably needs alignment, both the power supply idle voltage and the bias current. That should take care of the balance problem unless the caps are going bad, which could cause the noise problem you describe on shutdown as the caps collapse assymetrically, rather than gracefully lose their charge.

I'd get a service manual and do the tuneup first and see how it sounds. There might be some service bulletins about your shutdown problems, I don't know as I've never had a TFM-45. Just my 2¢ worth.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
<<

elgrau

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 2898

Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 9:33 pm

Post Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:20 pm

Re: TFM-45 Problems???

Absolutely agree with Billd: the L-R channel imbalance is almost certainly due to need for a bias/damping adjustment (ESPECIALLY if your unit has not had the service bulletin (SB) "fix" done for the damping adjustment sensitivity). When I got my 45 it had the same channel imbalance of several db (balance controls were just enough to correct!). I did the damping adjustment (and the others) several times before doing the damping SB "fix". That was almost a year ago and I have not had this issue since (the way i knew it needed damping adjustment was when one channel was louder or softer then the other AND the sound quality had "degraded" to the point where it had to addressed!). My 45 has been 100% "even keeled " since this damping SB "fix" (which involves "downgrading" the pot to a lower value and adding a "constant" resistor in the loop to make up the difference = lower sensitivity to pot - and "other" changes).
Ed
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
<<

Magnaryder

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7t's

Posts: 2088

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:00 am

Location: Bucyrus, Ohio

Post Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:15 pm

Re: TFM-45 Problems???

Dennis47 wrote:I recently received a TFM-45 via UPS Ground and found the amp
to have, what I believe, are several problems. I'm very confident
the amplifier was in excellent shape when sent as the previous
owner only sold it as he accquired a Lightstar Reference 2.0 amp.

First, the VU meter lights do not illuminate. I removed the cover
and examined the lamps to find one of the blubs has a broken
filament. Okay..no big deal....simple lamp replacements.

I then connected the amp to my C-4000t preamp, TX-12 tuner
and Polk SDA-2B speakers. The amp sounds great, but
demonstrates a few odd characteristics. When powered-on there
is a buzzing sound for about 2 seconds. The left channel seems to
be 5db +/- lower than the right channel. I had to adjust the preamp
balance control at 10:30 - 11 to achieve volume balance.
When powered-down the amp produces a shuttering sound
(Shssss-Thut-tut-tut-tut-tut....tut....tut) starting in the right
channel and migrating to the left channel. Also, when powered-off,
the VU meters jump to a 5-8 watt reading and then slowly (10-15
seconds) dissapate to zero with the right channel meter returning
to zero faster than the left channel.

Are these symptoms normal for a TFM-45?
Can anyone give me a general diagnosis?
I'm concerend that the package had impact during shipping and
the amp needs to vist Rita's repair shop. If so, I would need to
file a damage claim with UPS.

What do you think????? #-o #-o #-o


I am dismayed this happened. Dennis told me the packaging showed slight damage to several places on the boxing but you wouldn't think it was enough to break a lamp. More and more it seems the carriers are getting lax in their attention to caring for thier packages. I take really good care of my gear and want the next owner to be able to enjoy it also. Damn shame UPS has to fuck it up.

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
<<

gdb

User avatar

SILVER-7t

Posts: 1705

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:43 pm

Location: Central Maryland

Post Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:26 pm

Re: TFM-45 Problems???

Does the 45 have dual knobs on the gain pot? If so, are they both in sync? If they're not both hitting the stop when turned all the way to the left,the channels will be at diff. levels. Might be as simple as that....or not. My ailing 55 makes some racket on startup for a few seconds but doesn't do it on shutdown. It's destined for a trip to Rita, soon I hope. Good luck ! :)
<<

elgrau

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 2898

Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 9:33 pm

Post Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:15 pm

Re: TFM-45 Problems???

No gain pots on the 45, gdb
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
<<

Dennis47

Newbie

Posts: 47

Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:08 pm

Location: Indiana

Post Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:28 pm

Re: TFM-45 Problems???

Thanks to BillD and elgrau for the info.

Can anyone tell me if it is normal for a TFM-45 to have
a prolonged reverberating buzz after power-on?
One of my M-1.5t, which needs an opamp replaced, has
a muted power-on buzz, but nothing like what I'm hearing
from this TFM-45.

Thanks again...
Dennis
PL 4000 II / PL 400 II (2) / PL 5100 II / PL 6000 II
PL 7000 II / PL 1000 w/JVD mod (2)
Carver C-1 / C-11 / C-4000t /M-1.0t (MKII opt 002)
M-1.5t (2) / TFM-15 / TFM-22 (2) / TFM-24 (2)
TFM-45 / HR-752 / DPL-33 / TD-1400 / TD-1700
TDR-2400 / TX-12 / DTL-100 / SDA-490t
Thorens 316 / Roberts 770X (2) / ADC SS3 MKII
Polk SDA SRS / Polk SDA SRS 2.3
Polk SDA-2B (XO upgrade)
Polk Monitor 12 & Monitor 5jr.
Polk Monitor 10B
Polk Monitor 7C (XO upgrade)
Polk Monitor SW6 sub
<<

lives country ( carver )

TFM-25

Posts: 353

Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 2:33 pm

Location: BRITISH COLUMBIA Canada

Post Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:04 am

Re: TFM-45 Problems???

....wonder if this is why there have been so many 42's and 45's
on ebay lately?
country's...pure sole...
<<

Magnaryder

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7t's

Posts: 2088

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:00 am

Location: Bucyrus, Ohio

Post Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:59 pm

Re: TFM-45 Problems???

Might be. New owners might not realize it's normal. My 55s went to Rita to be repaired 2 years ago, did it whren they left, did it when they returned. The 45 was no different than my 55s, they ALL DO IT. Lights dim, amp clicks then a 1-2 second buzz. Amp comes on, everything is cool. Nature of the beast. The 45 isn't as loud as the 55 though.

M 500 t doesn't make a sound. hmmm.

Someone wanna ask Bob about this....James?

ray
Last edited by Magnaryder on Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
<<

elgrau

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 2898

Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 9:33 pm

Post Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:59 pm

Re: TFM-45 Problems???

Neither my 45 nor 42 has any (audible that I can hear) "buzzing" @ turn on. The 45 perhaps the faintest of buzz/hum that lasts at most one second when it's COLD*. Nothing when turned on if warmed up even a little. Nothing from the "Rollandized" 42 at any time. This buzz/hum could indicate an out of adjustment damping pot (Rolland replaced this pot with "fixed" resistance on the 42; I did the service bulletin "fix" for this issue on my 45). I did notice once (before SB "fix") when I turned this pot the wrong direction when adjusting it (and the adjustment hence went "way" out of range) that I did hear a loud "buzzing" from the circut/transformer/something. If your 42/45 does buzz, might want to check this damping adjustment (the one that requires a 1V RMS output with an 8 ohm load across the speaker terminals for a 35 mv (I believe) 2000 Hz input signal).

*whch "fits" because they require the damping adjustment be made AFTER the unit has warmed up. So when cold, it could be very slightly "off" and thus "buzz" a bit before it warms up and thus gets "back in range" for this adjustment?
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
<<

BillD

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 7295

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:30 pm

Re: TFM-45 Problems???

There is a slight hum in some of my amps as the come up. The ones with relays more so than ones without. For instance my M-500 hums a little when it comes up before the relay kicks in, as does my A-500x. Nothing on the M-400s or the C-500 or the Sunfire though.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer

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