New Member Checking In.

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UncleMeat
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by UncleMeat » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:15 pm



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JxxJb0yZ9U

I don't live in that world, either Michael.

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Daddyjt
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by Daddyjt » Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 pm

UncleMeat wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:15 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JxxJb0yZ9U

I don't live in that world, either Michael.
3ECF1C8C-E242-4B77-8203-DFDD07A96132.jpeg
3ECF1C8C-E242-4B77-8203-DFDD07A96132.jpeg (46.64 KiB) Viewed 383 times
Too much to keep track of...

Currently enjoying Legacy Focus 20/20, driven by McCormak DNA 225, BillD C1, Oppo 105 FLAC

UncleMeat
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by UncleMeat » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:16 pm

You just keep serving up the BS, trying to brainwash us don't you? Michael Fremer has listened to just about every audio component under the sun. I think he knows there is a difference between how it 'sounds' and 'measures', and is well qualified to speak to that topic. His proclamation that he "lives in the real world" places folks like you in the realm of not believing in a spherical earth that orbits the sun. Maybe you could take up the argument with him about it.

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Daddyjt
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by Daddyjt » Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:34 am

UncleMeat wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:16 pm
You just keep serving up the BS, trying to brainwash us don't you? Michael Fremer has listened to just about every audio component under the sun. I think he knows there is a difference between how it 'sounds' and 'measures', and is well qualified to speak to that topic. His proclamation that he "lives in the real world" places folks like you in the realm of not believing in a spherical earth that orbits the sun. Maybe you could take up the argument with him about it.
Are you really this obtuse, or are you putting on an act?

The “Real world”, as you and your friend proclaim to be enamored with is defined by physics! And more importantly, physics doesn’t care about your feelings - it either is, or it isn’t. Your attempt to turn me into a flat earther misses the mark by a wide margin - I’m the one living in the factual, measurable world, remember? I have no trouble accepting the statistics and measurements that prove the earth is a sphere😉

I find it interesting that you’ll accept the word of a total stranger over measurable parameters of a piece of gear. I don’t know that dude - I’m sure he’s listened to a lot of gear. Good for him. Problem is, I don’t know what he hears, and I don’t really care what he likes.

Let me ask you this: how many audio critics like your friend Mike totally TRASHED Bob’s gear when it came out? I know the answer, and I am pretty sure you do too. Now let me point out something else: the measurements and specifications of Bob’s gear told the story to THOUSANDS of consumers that sent a silent middle finger to the “audio critics”. Why? Because specs and measurements don’t lie. They are universal, and immune to “spin”, personal bias, and prejudice.
Too much to keep track of...

Currently enjoying Legacy Focus 20/20, driven by McCormak DNA 225, BillD C1, Oppo 105 FLAC

UncleMeat
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by UncleMeat » Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:34 pm

You really should stop the name calling put-downs, it's very immature.

Doesn't feel too good to be called a quack, does it? Yet you THINK you can call me one with "science" on your side? It all goes out the window when you actually LISTEN to music. I don't care what meters/scopes say, I know what my ears are telling me, and you can't possibly measure every aspect of an audio signal with a DA, o-scope, SA. That means your analysis is just as incomplete, and therefore non-scientific, as mine. It doesn't matter anyway, my ears are where 'the rubber meets the road', which means they are the final 'measuring tool', and yours should be also.

I don't accept the words of ANYONE when it comes to my own listening experience. I posted that video because I am just as frustrated as Michael Fremer is with the people like you who think you should judge gear based solely on 3 metrics that don't nearly indicate what the SQ of a component will be. If I had EXPECTATION BIAS (of which I don't) it would have been for the BillD modded preamp. Maybe you should consider YOUR OWN expectation bias as part of the reason YOU FEEL the BillD preamp is better. Note that I didn't say 'sounds better', because you have not said that here, have you? You only said it measures better so AFAIK you don't discount that the sound is quite a bit different (to me, worse) than the stock C-1/11.

I'm not aware if Michael Fremer ever reviewed Bob's equipment. Generally his reviews are of equipment that are 2-3x or more expensive than Bob's marketing prices. He includes the BASIC 'measurements' at the end of his reviews, BTW. The specs/measurments of Bob's gear in general are worse than other mid/high-end components in their price range/class. What WE HERE WHO ARE FANS OF BOB'S WORK DO KNOW is that it sounds better than it -should-, regardless of measurement. That is why I am saddened when I listen to a BillD modded preamp and am told to disregard the obvious loss of musicality with the preference of 'numbers' as the only reasoning for doing the mod.

Bob's current design philosophy: "It's a tube amp, we don't care about THD, just LISTEN to how GLORIOUS IT SOUNDS" Most of his design intent with SS audio equipment was to REPRODUCE TUBE SOUND, with inexpensive SS circuits that could also deliver more output power. I think Bob WANTED the C-1/11 to sound like a TUBE PREAMP. Unfortunately BillD (among others) lost sight of that little fact.

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Daddyjt
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by Daddyjt » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:42 pm

Dude, you can call me whatever you want - it really won’t change my day. I was simply pointing out that YOU are the one that denies science, which is the fundamental way we determine that the earth is round.

If I have hurt your feelings, I sincerely apologize. Based on the way you treated others at CS, I assumed you had thicker skin. Not to worry, there are many out there that can dish it out, but lack the fortitude to “take it”. I will be more mindful of your feelings going forward.

I never said (or implied) that you can measure all aspects of every audio signal with test equipment. However, I would challenge you to tell me what aspects of a signal at the preamp you cannot measure. Typically, when we discuss things we can’t measure, it’s between the speakers and your ears, not further up the audio chain. As a side note - and for the last time - you saying it sounds better to your ears is fine - always has been. But when you say things like “it (2134) doesn’t fucking work in the system”, you’re going beyond what sounds good to you, and you’re wrong.

As for the measurements telling the story, at the preamp, they pretty much do. If you want a preamp to do what a preamp is supposed to do (select source, apply gain, and NOT color the signal), then the measurements DO tell the story. And just so we are clear, I think the BillD C1 is an OUTSTANDING preamp. Hell, I’ve used one exclusively for over 6 years now. It’s been in my signature line since Brian built one for me, before I learned how to do them myself. It is EXACTLY what a preamp should be - dead quiet, ultra low distortion, and no - it does not oscillate, and NO ONE has ever reported such. I hope that answerers your question on where I stand on the BillD C1. however, I do feel like you were being intentionally obtuse on this point - and that’s not a personal insult, so please don’t allow it to hurt your feelings (but I apologize if it does).

I went and read some of Fremer’s reviews, and was immediately reminded of why I HATE reading audiophile reviews. As far as I can tell, he’s just like most reviewers, who put out an endless string of “puff pieces”, with and equally endless string of words like “transparent, open, warm, rich”, blah, blah, blah... seriously makes me want to puke coat hangers. In my (admittedly) short perusal of his reviews, they all fit this bill - but hey, gotta keep the advertising revenue rolling in, and bad reviews don’t do that. Seriously, asking a stranger to review audio gear for you is like asking someone to describe the color red to a blind man. Too often, I see people reading reviews by the likes of Fremer to help them feel good about their purchase - sort of a retroactive confirmation bias (“Well Michael says it great, so it’s GOTTA be great, right...?”)
Too much to keep track of...

Currently enjoying Legacy Focus 20/20, driven by McCormak DNA 225, BillD C1, Oppo 105 FLAC

UncleMeat
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by UncleMeat » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:50 pm

SCIENCE requires SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS. Your ANALYSIS is UNSCIENTIFIC. Just because you use the SCIENCE MACHINE does not make it a complete SCIENIFIC ANALYSIS. Since you can't measure all aspects of sound reproduction it's just a NON-SCIENTIFIC as listening and deciding based on HOW IT SOUNDS. Guess what? HOW IT SOUNDS is the most important!! (TO ME)

I like the C-1/11 the way BOB designed it to sound. With the OPA2134 is DOES NOT SOUND LIKE BOB DESIGNED IT TO SOUND. If you call that 'COLOR', then I say KODAKROME ALL THE WAY BABY!!! Can you measure the 'coloration'? Or is it just a suspicion that Bob's design 'colors' the sound? If it's the latter, then you CAN'T say the BillD mod "fixes" anything, it just sounds different, and there is no 'standard' by which to measure.

BTW, when I asked BOB CARVER DIRECTLY about using the OPA2134 in the C-1/11, HE SAID "YEP, THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH POWER SUPPLY OSCILLATION, AND FEEDBACK OSCILLATION". Now, please stop telling me that I'm wrong, when BOB CARVER is the person who said/verified this! I SUSPECTED THIS SORT OF PROBLEM before asking Bob about it. I DID NOT put words in his mouth. I only mentioned there being issues (as others have also stated) with the sound of a BillD modification. That was HIS RESPONSE. So in reality, you are arguing with BOB indirectly about it. I said this more than once before in this thread.

My complaint about your personal attacks are not because I'm thin skinned, it's because it's total BS to try and denigrate a person rather than discuss the issue. You are calling me out again for hard words said on CS, and I'm telling you AGAIN, my words were only in retort to the personal attacks made against me by MODS, who should NEVER HAVE GONE THERE TO BEGIN WITH. They broke their own rules about it FIRST.

My reference to Fremer was ONLY FOR THE STATEMENT HE MADE IN THE VIDEO. We live in a world of reality of sound experiences, not what a scope reads. I could care less what the scope says if it doesn't sound 'REAL' and true to life at my ears. Bob gets it, Fremer gets it, Harry Pearson gets it, I get it. Unfortunately, you don't, and for that I am truly sorry.

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kingman
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by kingman » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:06 am

Folks, it’s time for this to end. The new member hasn’t posted again and I don’t know if I ever would again after a hi- jack job like this. I know the forum needs posts but please be considerate of the members and take this private. Just my 2 cents as I don’t have any stake in this.

Remember, in reality it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!

hewlew1
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by hewlew1 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:19 am

If this happened somewhere else they would be playing with shovels in the sand!
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by Les Johnson » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:50 am

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UncleMeat
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by UncleMeat » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:25 pm

This would not have become an issue here (or on CS) if I had been allowed the FREEDOM OF OPINION/SPEECH. Remember, that basic human right? Just because CS mods don't agree with it does not mean that they (or anyone else) has any more right to suppress it.

Yes, in reality it only matters how it sounds to me. That's all I've been trying to say; and it should only matter how it sounds to you too. This is an audio forum, the place where these things like "how it sounds" are to be discussed, not avoided.
hewlew1 wrote:I don't kiss ass, I dont take peoples shit, so dont expect it from me!
And don't expect it from me as well. I'm sorry if my not taking people's shit doesn't fit with your personal paradigm, but if that's your belief you shouldn't expect others to do the opposite.

hewlew1
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by hewlew1 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:07 pm

Yo unclemeat you got it all wrong I surely agree you have a right to Express your opinion. My comment was meant to point out that some other places would not have allowed it to occur period. As you already know
"Carver Audio, why settle for less, just ask my neighbors"
C1,C2,CT3,CT6,CT7/3,CT23,CT26,C4000,The Receiver,M500,M500T/6,M1.5T,TFM24/2,TFM/25/3,TFM35,TFM35X,TFM42/2,DTL200,TDR1700,DPL20,TX11/2, 5.2Center,5.1Sub/3,Original Amazings,Platinum Amazings/2,AL3'S,Polk SDA SRS, Polk SDA 1C's, Polk RTA11's, Polk Monitor 10's/2 ,Monitor 7's, Sunfire 300x2 /5, Sunfire pre, Sunfire MK2 Sub/2, 4 Carverfest monoblocks, Carverfest linestage preamp/2, Mapletree Audio Designs Tube Preamp,Phase Linear Andromeda III speakers, Phase Linear 4000 Preamp, Dahlquist DQ-10's
CERTIFIED AMPLE PLIERS EXPERT
Some of the best fuckings we get during our lifetime come from a relative!
I don't kiss ass, I dont take peoples shit, so dont expect it from me!

UncleMeat
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by UncleMeat » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:24 am

hewlew1 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:07 pm
Yo unclemeat you got it all wrong I surely agree you have a right to Express your opinion. My comment was meant to point out that some other places would not have allowed it to occur period. As you already know
So sorry Harry, I thought you meant the opposite. Thanks for setting me straight! LOL

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Daddyjt
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by Daddyjt » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:24 am

kingman wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:06 am
Folks, it’s time for this to end. The new member hasn’t posted again and I don’t know if I ever would again after a hi- jack job like this. I know the forum needs posts but please be considerate of the members and take this private. Just my 2 cents as I don’t have any stake in this.

Remember, in reality it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!
Wayne,

I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and several others here, and I apologize for any harm this thread has caused the community. As I stated early in, I initially commented in this thread because it was brought to my attention that a friend of mine was being maligned. While the conversation that followed certainly had its distasteful attributes, it has also been a healthy discussion about the objective vs the subjective.

I will conceded the “last word” on this topic to Russ, and I will say nothing more on it, save this: if anyone interested finds themselves in the Ogden area (30 min north of Salt Lake City), my door is always open to audio lovers. I would be happy to demonstrate the BillD C1 for you, side by side, to an unmodded C1. I can also audition a wide array of vintage speakers and amps, and if vinyl is your thing, I’ll even fire up the TT😉 (bring your own records though, mine are all boxed up!).

Again, my sincerest apologies to the community for the dust up - but at the end of the day, I am at least happy that there are those of us with such passion for this hobby that we are willing to fight for it. That passion is the only thing preventing the total relegation of audio enjoyment to earbuds and mp3.
Too much to keep track of...

Currently enjoying Legacy Focus 20/20, driven by McCormak DNA 225, BillD C1, Oppo 105 FLAC

UncleMeat
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Re: New Member Checking In.

Post by UncleMeat » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:22 pm

Daddyjt wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:24 am
I would be happy to demonstrate the BillD C1 for you, side by side, to an unmodded C1. I can also audition a wide array of vintage speakers and amps, and if vinyl is your thing, I’ll even fire up the TT😉 (bring your own records though, mine are all boxed up!).
DID I NOT MAKE IT ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that MOST of the problem lies in the Phono circuit?? If you have not listened to vinyl with your BillD C-1 and compared it to a RE-CAPPED C-1, then how can you justify saying that I am wrong? The problem also exists when swapping TL072 with 2134 in the C-19's phono section.

I've got uncompressed 24b/48k ripped vinyl recordings (from a stock C-11) that sound BETTER THAN the original vinyl when both are played back through a BillD C-11. I used a Marantz PMD-580 for record/playback, which is a pro grade recorder; so it's not a quality of component issue. It's NOT the ripped recording; when the same test is done with a 4136 in the phono section the original vinyl regains it's superior sound (as it should). Replace the line amp with the stock 4136 and BOTH recordings improve further. There is no other explanation, the 2134 op-amp is changing the sound (rather severely) in the modded C-11's I've listened to.

I'd be happy to demonstrate the sound flaws with the BillD op-amp mod on my system, California East SF Bay Area.

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