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Greetings from a noob..

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TNRabbit

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13374

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

+12 @ 30 hz?!? Jesus, you should be blowing the woofers right out the front of the grills....

Something is definitely wrong. Check your surrounds
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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Terry F.

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Posts: 44

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:18 pm

Location: S Florida

Post Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:51 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

TNRabbit wrote:+12 @ 30 hz?!? Jesus, you should be blowing the woofers right out the front of the grills....

Something is definitely wrong. Check your surrounds


Exactly. That what I would have expected but I have never listened to a different set.

I'll inspect tonight and report back.

Thanks,
Terry
(2) Silver 9t, TFM-55, TFM-35,
Original ALS, AL-III,
Sunfire TG5,
Sony 300 disc changer (yes, I am lazy), Blue-Ray player.
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treitz3

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"Julian"
"Julian"

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Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:59 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

Please do. It sounds like either a case of amplifier exhaustion due to over boosting the 30Hz frequency or rotted surrounds. Just so you know, when you boost the 30Hz frequency, you zap most of the available power out of the amp for other frequencies in order for it to reproduce just that one frequency.

You may have more than one issue here.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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engtaz

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"TAZ"

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Location: Tampa, FL

Post Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:08 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

Could be room nulls.
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
Bogen SRB20 is computer amp
Carver PM-350 donated for youth church use
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Terry F.

Newbie

Posts: 44

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:18 pm

Location: S Florida

Post Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:37 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

Here are some woofer pics. Look good to me, the voice coils move freely, no internal rubbing. They may have been refoamed, that doesn't look like 24 year old foam.

DSC00279a.jpg
DSC00279a.jpg (153.58 KiB) Viewed 766 times

DSC00272a.jpg
DSC00272a.jpg (192.47 KiB) Viewed 766 times

DSC00270a.jpg
DSC00270a.jpg (161.73 KiB) Viewed 766 times


Should I open a new thread in the correct forum? We're off-topic at this point.

Thanks,
Terry
(2) Silver 9t, TFM-55, TFM-35,
Original ALS, AL-III,
Sunfire TG5,
Sony 300 disc changer (yes, I am lazy), Blue-Ray player.
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treitz3

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"Julian"
"Julian"

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Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:13 am

Re: Greetings from a noob..

No, it's better to keep all of the facts of the discussion in one place for reference. Man, it's been a while since I have seen an Original woofer but I do not think those are the original surrounds. I believe that your initial assessment that they aren't 20 years old, is correct. If memory serves, the foam did not run in the path of the screws either.

If you have a DVM, could you measure the ohm rating at the binding posts with the speakers not hooked up?

Have you tried running them with absolutely no EQ boost or attenuation at all?
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
<<

Terry F.

Newbie

Posts: 44

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:18 pm

Location: S Florida

Post Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:32 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

treitz3 wrote:No, it's better to keep all of the facts of the discussion in one place for reference. Man, it's been a while since I have seen an Original woofer but I do not think those are the original surrounds. I believe that your initial assessment that they aren't 20 years old, is correct. If memory serves, the foam did not run in the path of the screws either.

If you have a DVM, could you measure the ohm rating at the binding posts with the speakers not hooked up?

Have you tried running them with absolutely no EQ boost or attenuation at all?


Yes, I can throw a meter across one of them tonight.

I have run them flat, they produce less bass, as you would expect. Perhaps my expectations are too high. They do produce bass but it just isn't as deep as I would have expected. My AL-IIIs do a better job with their (relative) tiny single 10" woofers.

Thanks again,
Terry
(2) Silver 9t, TFM-55, TFM-35,
Original ALS, AL-III,
Sunfire TG5,
Sony 300 disc changer (yes, I am lazy), Blue-Ray player.
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TNRabbit

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13374

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:15 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

No way the AL-IIIs should beat Originals in a bass shoot-out.

That said, the Originals are quite behind in efficiency. Having personally driven all three models with my Sunfire amp at CF 07, I can unequivocally state that the plats are most efficient, followed closely by the AL-IIIs, followed way back by the Originals. Perhaps that's the difference, & you just don't have enough balls in your amp to drive them.

The referenced event:

Image

Another pic:

Image
Last edited by TNRabbit on Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

BillD

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Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:16 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

That just doesn't make any sense at all. Reese's Amazing woofers put out astounding bass (no need for a subwoofer there). Can you feel them all moving? I'm guessing something in the crossover has gone awry.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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treitz3

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"Julian"
"Julian"

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Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:31 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

Yeah, that doesn't add up. The bass out of the Amazings should smoke that of the bass coming from the ALIII's. It should also be a bit more accurate [less muddy, if you will - in comparison]. I don't believe that the surrounds would have anything to do with it and I believe that BillD is going in the same direction I am......looking at the crossover.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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stevewithrow

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SILVER-7t

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Location: Great NorthWest.....Carver Country..

Post Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:59 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

As I read this thread it accrued tp me the amp he was using , a TFM 35..Now I am no expert like alot of the other guys EI..Bill , Gary and others...But I also have a TFM 35 , I also have the originals and AL III, s.....I used my III,s with the 35 and some other configurations,,,as the Bass on em does lack..With that being said , when I got a pair of Originals , all I had was a TFM 35..IT SUCKED.I had to put my pre amd an a small speaker mode , and run the bass to my sub..So I went and found me a Sunfire 300x2....Now it also runs out of head room with the bass , BUT , much better then the 35 ....Just my input , I am so sure if I get a Sunfire 600x2 , even better yet...Just blows me away how much power these ALS,s need....I know from experience a 35 wont do the job...You keep messing around with that amp to make those speakers sing , some thing will give , and it wont be the speakers...
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BillD

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

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Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:16 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

Below is a schematic of the woofer part of the Amazing crossover.
Amazing Woofer.jpg
Amazing Woofer.jpg (67.98 KiB) Viewed 736 times


As you can see, there are two inductors and a capacitor. I'd be very suspicions of that 200µF 100V capacitor because, if it were shorted, it would drain off power to ground, and you'd only get partial sound coming from the top leg.

You can get a part that's probably as good as the one in there by using THIS ONE.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
<<

Terry F.

Newbie

Posts: 44

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:18 pm

Location: S Florida

Post Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:54 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

BillD wrote:Below is a schematic of the woofer part of the Amazing crossover.
Amazing Woofer.jpg


As you can see, there are two inductors and a capacitor. I'd be very suspicions of that 200µF 100V capacitor because, if it were shorted, it would drain off power to ground, and you'd only get partial sound coming from the top leg.

You can get a part that's probably as good as the one in there by using THIS ONE.


That is a big tip, thank you very much. I'll look at the x-overs tonight. I really wouldn't expect that cap to fail on both speakers, though, but anything is possible.

BR,
Terry
(2) Silver 9t, TFM-55, TFM-35,
Original ALS, AL-III,
Sunfire TG5,
Sony 300 disc changer (yes, I am lazy), Blue-Ray player.
<<

stevewithrow

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SILVER-7t

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Location: Great NorthWest.....Carver Country..

Post Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:25 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

Terry F. wrote:
BillD wrote:Below is a schematic of the woofer part of the Amazing crossover.
Amazing Woofer.jpg


As you can see, there are two inductors and a capacitor. I'd be very suspicions of that 200µF 100V capacitor because, if it were shorted, it would drain off power to ground, and you'd only get partial sound coming from the top leg.

You can get a part that's probably as good as the one in there by using THIS ONE.


That is a big tip, thank you very much. I'll look at the x-overs tonight. I really wouldn't expect that cap to fail on both speakers, though, but anything is possible.

BR,
Terry

Hi Bill , do you think some of the problem would be that he is using a 35 to power them with , I know my 35 really struggled..
<<

Terry F.

Newbie

Posts: 44

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:18 pm

Location: S Florida

Post Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:31 pm

Re: Greetings from a noob..

stevewithrow wrote:
Terry F. wrote:
BillD wrote:Below is a schematic of the woofer part of the Amazing crossover.
Amazing Woofer.jpg


As you can see, there are two inductors and a capacitor. I'd be very suspicions of that 200µF 100V capacitor because, if it were shorted, it would drain off power to ground, and you'd only get partial sound coming from the top leg.

You can get a part that's probably as good as the one in there by using THIS ONE.


That is a big tip, thank you very much. I'll look at the x-overs tonight. I really wouldn't expect that cap to fail on both speakers, though, but anything is possible.

BR,
Terry

Hi Bill , do you think some of the problem would be that he is using a 35 to power them with , I know my 35 really struggled..


For whatever its worth, I am not driving them hard, the VUs are seldom push over 0. I'm not trying to blast the music. I know the 35 isn't very big by ALS standards, but is still is supposed to be ~375 at 4 ohm.

Best,
Terry
(2) Silver 9t, TFM-55, TFM-35,
Original ALS, AL-III,
Sunfire TG5,
Sony 300 disc changer (yes, I am lazy), Blue-Ray player.
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