Sunfire Subs

Sunfire Speaker Discussions and Questions
fixj
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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by fixj » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:19 am

jjptkd,

thanks , that would be an option. The 'new' Sunfire will repair or replace it flat rate for $375 with an EQ plate. I will check
e-bay before sending it off to KY.

appreciate your help.

but I have to ask.....how many Sunfire subs have you had fail ? and have you had one suddenly decide not to power on?

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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by Snoop65 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:36 am

TNRabbit wrote:IMO, the Sunfire (& MOST subs in general) shine below 40 hz. Unless you're using bookshelf speakers, consider using your mains above 40 hz.
Thanks! That is exactly what I was thinking.
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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by BillD » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:43 am

I've found that most subs aren't "musical" unless they're big. I have an M&K push-pull dual 12" sub (front/down) that is very musical, but it's the size of a two-drawer file cabinet. The Sunfire subs don't have that range unless you EQ the heck out of them (and then you loose their kick). So, I agree, keep your subs in the range they do their best and you'll be most pleased.
It should sound like it isn't there!
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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by jjptkd » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:02 pm

Almost every Sunfire (non-EQ) sub I've purchased needed servicing, even the ones not advertised as such. In the early models they used lower quality and voltage caps that became stressed very easily with even the slightest voltage drift. I believe the older caps are 85v and the power supply set at 80v and over time the voltage will drift up. The new replacement caps are higher quality and rated at 105v so they can handle the variations longer. Plus, when they re-cap the plates, they use silicone between the new caps to keep them from shaking loose.
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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by jjptkd » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:07 pm

For subs, it seems there's a trade off, "musical" or "deep" seems to be the options. I have a Klipsch RSW-10 and it's extremely musical, perfect match in my opinion for the Sunfire CRM-2 or CRS-3 as it really shines 30-120hz but lacks the real deep rumble of the True Subs. Even my less expensive Klipsch SW subs are very musical but again, lack the low end thump.
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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by fixj » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:52 pm

I am getting an education here. thanks guys.

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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by TNRabbit » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:09 pm

jjptkd wrote:For subs, it seems there's a trade off, "musical" or "deep" seems to be the options. I have a Klipsch RSW-10 and it's extremely musical, perfect match in my opinion for the Sunfire CRM-2 or CRS-3 as it really shines 30-120hz but lacks the real deep rumble of the True Subs. Even my less expensive Klipsch SW subs are very musical but again, lack the low end thump.
I disagree that a sub can't dig low & be musical. It just takes enormous power reserves & good design to get that from a smallish sub. I have a Klipsch RT-12d & while it's not flat to sub-hearing frequencies, I find it more than adequate to supplement below 40 hz. That takes a LOT of power requirement off my AL-IIIs/Sunfire amp.
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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by Chauss » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:13 pm

BillD wrote:I've found that most subs aren't "musical" unless they're big. I have an M&K push-pull dual 12" sub (front/down) that is very musical, but it's the size of a two-drawer file cabinet. The Sunfire subs don't have that range unless you EQ the heck out of them (and then you loose their kick). So, I agree, keep your subs in the range they do their best and you'll be most pleased.
I agree BillD- I have a SSW212 Infinity that I have had since 91 and have yet to find a smaller sub that comes close for music!
It is almost the size of a mini refrigerator. It was $1595 retail way back then- so I guess it was top of the line for the time.
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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by OconeeOrange » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:34 pm

TNRabbit wrote:
jjptkd wrote:For subs, it seems there's a trade off, "musical" or "deep" seems to be the options. I have a Klipsch RSW-10 and it's extremely musical, perfect match in my opinion for the Sunfire CRM-2 or CRS-3 as it really shines 30-120hz but lacks the real deep rumble of the True Subs. Even my less expensive Klipsch SW subs are very musical but again, lack the low end thump.
I disagree that a sub can't dig low & be musical. It just takes enormous power reserves & good design to get that from a smallish sub. I have a Klipsch RT-12d & while it's not flat to sub-hearing frequencies, I find it more than adequate to supplement below 40 hz. That takes a LOT of power requirement off my AL-IIIs/Sunfire amp.
This was on newegg last week a hundred off, but is still a good buy there at $499.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6882780078

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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by OconeeOrange » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:46 pm

TNRabbit wrote:
I disagree that a sub can't dig low & be musical. It just takes enormous power reserves & good design to get that from a smallish sub. I have a Klipsch RT-12d & while it's not flat to sub-hearing frequencies, I find it more than adequate to supplement below 40 hz. That takes a LOT of power requirement off my AL-IIIs/Sunfire amp.
I have had small subs from Cambridge and JBL as computer speakers and found them to be very musical. They can't fill a room, but add a lot to the small speakers which are not much w/o them.
To that end my deck speakers only go to 80 and they are good ones I only use for music. A musical sub is very important some places.

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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by Chauss » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:44 pm

Define "musical"... I define it for my system as a synergy with my mains that you can not tell the sub is powered on- ie: no boominess- just a little boost below 40Hz as tight and accurate as the rest of the system.
You should not be able to "hear" the sub....as in- it should blend perfectly with your speakers so that you believe the output is coming from your speakers sound stage as if they went down to 20Hz or below without it. My sub does just that for me in my setup.

I guess I just like BIG speakers. My sub is half as big as my Apogees....Large speakers present the most realistic overall soundstage for my ears. YMMV :D
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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by OconeeOrange » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:07 pm

Chauss wrote:Define "musical"... I define it for my system as a synergy with my mains that you can not tell the sub is powered on- ie: no boominess- just a little boost below 40Hz as tight and accurate as the rest of the system.
You should not be able to "hear" the sub....as in- it should blend perfectly with your speakers so that you believe the output is coming from your speakers sound stage as if they went down to 20Hz or below without it. My sub does just that for me in my setup.

I guess I just like BIG speakers. My sub is half as big as my Apogees....Large speakers present the most realistic overall soundstage for my ears. YMMV :D
This thread is now off subject, but to join on that tangent - Chass, I agree, sorta.

All cannot have big mains due to many reasons, so not entirely.

At my TT, no need for a sub as my mains do the job.
On my deck, need the big POlK as the Sunfires need tiny help, and the money I spent on the DSP was cheap as I could never do the "blend" you speak of without it.

I agree that with music, some (me) don't want the sub ever taking center stage. Anytime I notice the sub, adjustments are needed somewhere. Sitting very close to mine, I can touch the speaker front and feel all it is adding to the music.

Bass ain't about the sub walking across the floor for me, but about the need to add in the bass player to the rest of the group.

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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by Snoop65 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:15 pm

Chauss wrote:Define "musical"... I define it for my system as a synergy with my mains that you can not tell the sub is powered on- ie: no boominess- just a little boost below 40Hz as tight and accurate as the rest of the system.
You should not be able to "hear" the sub....as in- it should blend perfectly with your speakers so that you believe the output is coming from your speakers sound stage as if they went down to 20Hz or below without it. My sub does just that for me in my setup.

I guess I just like BIG speakers. My sub is half as big as my Apogees....Large speakers present the most realistic overall soundstage for my ears. YMMV :D
Well said.The marriage between you mains and your sub should be seamless.
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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by BillD » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:37 pm

I think the musicality of subs (for me) is above 40 Hz. Subs don't seem to have very smooth frequency response 40-100Hz
It should sound like it isn't there!
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Re: Sunfire Subs

Post by OconeeOrange » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:53 pm

BillD wrote:I think the musicality of subs (for me) is above 40 Hz. Subs don't seem to have very smooth frequency response 40-100Hz
I agree. As subs get low, it is more about shaking things. I like that too when the need is there, but that is mostly for video. Some of my favorite tunes have almost no bass. Still, if it is there, I want to hear it, even if the audio engineers fucked it up.

The sub on my deck is a few inches from my wooden Adirondack chair and well isolated from the floor. The wooden chair picks up things from the air my ears miss and makes my ass happy.
All in all, subs can add a lot to music even for a guy like me.

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