Thorens TD 145 turntable

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OBI56
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Re: Garrard turntable?

Post by OBI56 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:25 pm

gdb wrote:I think that there is a lot of "The Emperor's New Clothes" silliness attached to the turntable cult, and if a table is capable of rotating a record at the proper speed and has a decent cart./stylus set to the correct tracking force,only canines and people with superhuman hearing are going to be able to discern a big difference between a $200 and a $4000 setup! Let me know if you are at all interested and CHEERS ! gdb :)
Pretty big assertion there gdb!!! About as true as substituting the words "sound system" or "CD player" for turntable. I don't have superhuman hearing and I am most certainly not a dog either, but to suggest that these 2 classes of people are the only ones who can hear any difference is basically fighting words to a lifelong vinyl guy (I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, so here comes the rant)! We really do have a fundemental difference of opinion here, so don't take this personally, it isn't.

A $200 turntable will work just fine in a $500 to $700 system which just doesn't have the resolution and low noise floor necessary to hear any difference. Generally speaking substituting a $500 turntable for the $200 one will make a small difference, but nowhere near the difference it would make in a $1200 system. For a $4000 turntable to make a difference you would need a sound system into the 5 figure range.

The sound differences are as numerous as the reasons for them. How precise the actual turntable speed is one factor; how consistent it is is another, how much motor vibration makes it trough the drive system is another, how well and at what frequencies the base resonnances are absorbed, tone arm geometry, compliance, weight, vertical tracking angle, offset, tonearm pivot friction, tone arm bearing vibrations, platter bearing vibrations, anti-skating effectiveness, total tonearm mass, effective tonearm mass, tonearm counterweight isolation, headshell stiffness and resonnance, tonearm wiring capacitance, cartridge weight, cartridge compliance, tracking force, stylus shape, cantelever stiffness and resonnance, cartridge type, cartridge/tonearm interaction and resonnance frequency, platter damping, mass and inertia... you want me to go on?

I've experimented around with dozens of turntables here in my home and in stereo shop showrooms and can very clearly hear the differences between turntables, tonearms and cartridges, even to the point of being able to tell blindfolded if the turntable is direct drive or belt drive, has an S shaped tonearm and if the cartridge is a moving coil or moving magnet type.

One recent experience was a few months ago comparing my Technics SL-D2, a Technics SL-1200 Mk II and my Thorens TD-104 and TP-16 tonearm using 3 identical ADC XML Mk II cartridges. The SL-1200 has a much more sophisticated direct drive system and suspension than the SL-D2 but an almost identical tonearm (in fact all the S shaped tonearms on far eastern turntables came from 1 single factory and are all identical, differing only in the headshell and tonearm pivot bearings) As expected both of the Technics sounded similar with the SL-1200 enjoying a clear advantage in motor noise and isolation from external vibration. Neither of them came even close to the Thorens in these 2 areas. The sound was definitely lacking in clarity in the upper ranges and a bit muddy in the lows on both Technics; very much similar in fact when compared to the Thorens which was crystal clear and richly detailled. Now remember that all 3 turntables were using identical cartridges with NOS styli. Even my tone deaf, MP3 listening caregiver could hear clear differences among all 3 turntables.

Now, as far as price goes, the SL-D2 originally retailled for around $200 + $200 for the cartridge, the SL-1200 Mk II for a bit over $1000 and the Thorens for about $450. The only area that the SL-1200 was better than the Thorens was in speed regulation, otherwise, they were like night and day as far as I was concerned. So, if you cannot hear these differences, it does not mean that they do not exist, only that you have never been able to experience them under the proper conditions in the right system.

I've conducted litterally dozens of these comparative listening tests on turntables over the years and for me, nothing yet beats the warm sound of vinyl.
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.

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Re: Garrard turntable?

Post by OBI56 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:27 pm

brit01 wrote:
MUCH much better choice!
Thks OBI.

I've asked the seller which one it is.

He's selling it without a cartridge for about 175 USD.
Good price for either model Brit. They are easy to identifyl the Mk II has a silver base and removable tonearm shaft, the regular one a wood base and removable headshell.
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Re: Garrard turntable?

Post by brit01 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:44 pm

OBI, the posts here are always so entertaining especially when you come out with explanations like that! \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

Anyway here is the pic (I guess it's the standard model then):
TD 145 .jpg
TD 145 .jpg (19.53 KiB) Viewed 2056 times
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Re: Garrard turntable?

Post by BillD » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:48 pm

Nice table!
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
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Re: Garrard turntable?

Post by OBI56 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:08 pm

brit01 wrote:OBI, the posts here are always so entertaining especially when you come out with explanations like that! \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

Anyway here is the pic (I guess it's the standard model then):
TD 145 .jpg
Brit, please sit down. What you have there is the extremely rare transition model between the TD-145 and the Mk II. I've only seen 1 other one in my life and I have seen hundreds of TD-145s. This model has the TD-145's superior motor ann platter bearing with the Mk II's tonearm; the best of both worlds! Jump on this one otherwise I'm going to try and get it myself, transportation costs and customs be damned!

What cartridge choices are available to you down there? I'll help you choose something that will really get the most out of this TT.

Now, please excuse me for a few minutes while I go and take a cold shower and change my underwear!
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Re: Garrard turntable?

Post by brit01 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:17 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

My ribs are cracking.

Well I just hope no one down here is also reading this thread. :-k :-k :-k

We should write in slang or code so they don't understand 8-[ 8-[
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Re: Garrard turntable?

Post by brit01 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:21 pm

Regarding cartridges I need to check that out.

In any case my better half will be in Miami in October so she could always pick things up there.
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Re: Thorens TD 145 turntable

Post by Reese » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:01 pm

Congratulations, brit01, what a find! And I hope you get it before anyone else does (who may know what they're getting!).
Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought -- JFK

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Re: Thorens TD 145 turntable

Post by snarffydoggy » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:04 pm

The TD-145 is the way to go then..
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Re: Thorens TD 145 turntable

Post by brit01 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:24 pm

(Well I've got tentative permission)

Do these models have serial numbers?

The seller is local. What do I need to check for when I see it? Remember it has no cartridge so i can't check the sound output to see if the speed is ok.
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Re: Thorens TD 145 turntable

Post by OBI56 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:00 pm

Brit, I goofed when I saw the picture. I only took a quick glance at it and thought it was the TP-63 type tonearm from the Mk II series, but it is in fact the regular tonearm from the original model without the headshell. It was only when I saved the picture and blew it up that I realized my obvious mistake (it does not have the removeable tonearm tube with the fixed silver headshell; the headshell on the Mk II tonearm is so small that it looks like the headshell socket on the original in a small picture). I feel so stupid for getting your hopes up about having found a hidden treasure.

Rest assured that it is nonetheless a very good TT and the price is good too, especially in myour market. Just make sure that he has the removeable headshell, otherwise you will have to pick one up on eBay.

Yes, they have serial numbers printed on a silver label on the back.

Check the motor at power up for any kind of noise (they are really quiet), the belt for signs of stretching if it has been in storage for a long time, the cueing mechanism for smooth operation up and down, the tonearm pivots for any drag and finally the trip mechanism for the end of record auto arm lift. Also check the dust cover hinges for cracks or breakage.

When moving the TT, remove the outer platter and pack it seperately so it does not get loose and move around destroying the tonearm. If he has the shipping screws, tighten them down to lock the suspension.
Thorens headshell.jpg
Thorens headshell.jpg (13.76 KiB) Viewed 2009 times
Thorens sub-platter.jpg
Thorens sub-platter.jpg (19.58 KiB) Viewed 2009 times
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Re: Thorens TD 145 turntable

Post by brit01 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:36 pm

OBI OBI OBI

no worries. Although I did get all excited when I read your comments about the model.

I understand he doesn't have the headshell anymore. So I would need to locate a new one along with a cartridge. Took me a while to figure out the Spanish terminology for headshell and cartridge.

Thanks very much for your input here.

8) 8) 8)
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Re: Thorens TD 145 turntable

Post by OBI56 » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:39 pm

Those headshells show up from time to time on eBay but there are none right now. I can keep my eyes open for one for you if you want.
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Re: Thorens TD 145 turntable

Post by Reese » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:46 pm

brit01,

I don't know if this address will be of any use to you where you are and considering customs, etc. -- however, you might try contacting The Turntable Factory here in the USA by email and inquire about the possibility of Thorens turntable parts they may have. Although the lead man/founder died last year, the site and staff continue. They were of help to me concerning Dual turntables, and also referred me on to Canada for more complex repairs (for Dual, at any rate). The Turntable Factory may be able to supply a headshell and cartridge (or at least a headshell you could attach a cartridge to once you choose one).

TheTurntableFactory@earthlink.net

Reese
Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought -- JFK

Sunfire Classic Tube Preamp; 2 Carver Silver 7ts, 2 Silver 9ts; bi-amped ALS (Originals upgraded to Platinum), Rane PE15's eq's and Rane AC22 xcrossover; Carver c-19 tube pre;
Carver 390t CD carousel; Carver 490t CD player; BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer; C-9 SH; Sony ES tuner and DAT deck; Sony CD copier/burner; Sony dual cassette deck; TEAC 2340R 4 ch r to r tape deck; Dual CS5000 tt, Shure V15 Type V-MR cartridge

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Re: Thorens TD 145 turntable

Post by brit01 » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:02 am

Guys,

thanks for the info once again.

Now I have a question regarding the headshell.

Do I need to buy a Thorens or will other headshells fit the arm of the TD 145?
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