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BOB CARVER

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OconeeOrange

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:13 am

BOB CARVER

For the next few days, to the delight of many, will not be able to post as I am going fishing.

Last night I ran across an article I had read before.
This time I enjoyed it more and actually learned from it this time.

So, read it again or not -

http://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge
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BrianT

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:23 am

Re: BOB CARVER

OconeeOrange wrote:For the next few days, to the delight of many, will not be able to post as I am going fishing.



Bill

Good luck, hope you catch a whale. :) :) :)

Brian.
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kingman

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:28 am

Re: BOB CARVER

Just don't catch the crabs!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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skip

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:05 am

Re: BOB CARVER

What did Ya fish for OO? Hope you had a fun trip.
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TNRabbit

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:28 am

Re: BOB CARVER

He just posted that this morning, skip; I imagine he's fishing right now~
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Scarabeo

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:40 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

Sounds Fishy?
BillD, You will be forever with us! RIP until we meet again on the other side...
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frankieD

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

I think its great that OO brought this up. It will be a good read for all you "tube" guys.

Read it through and you will find a bunch of "audiophiles" who wanted more than anything to be able to tell Bob's amp from whichever "audiophile" amp (some tubes/some not) they challenged him with, and were not able to do it.

They really didn't want to give Bob the credit for what they thought was impossible.

Bob laughs at impossible !

He does love tube though.....go figure.
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Zoot Horn

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:57 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

Innaresting,,Frankie,, I never had you pegged as a solid state guy.
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Scarabeo

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:06 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

:-k If you stuck a Tube amp in front of me and a SS one - I could tell you the Tube over SS FAST....My Sunfire stuff sounds raspy to my Tube amp and you know how great the Sunfire sounds / Tube = smooth....

I don't even half to think twice! Not for a second or worry who I may offend or what ever - you would half to run a lot of tricks to fool me Tube vs SS, A lot of tricks and I am going off a 75 watt 700 Dollar cheapo Tube amp to compair!
Last edited by Scarabeo on Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BillD, You will be forever with us! RIP until we meet again on the other side...
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frankieD

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:11 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

Zoot Horn wrote:Innaresting,,Frankie,, I never had you pegged as a solid state guy.



I'm not necessarily a "solid state" guy but more of a Carver/Sunfire guy.

My point was that amps have a sound that is not necesarily ss or tube. Bob proved that a solid state amp could be made to sound like a tube amp. So much so that the "experts" who definitly would have preferred to trash him...couldn't because unless they could SEE the amp playing they could not hear a difference. These people surely have better ears than I do.

On the other hand, George the tube amps I've heard at the fest (especially yours and Jesse's) sounded great but so did Skips and Toms ss amps etc. Taking it further I wasn't as impressed with James/Dave system using those beautiful Carver tubes mostly (I think) because James' version of the ALS aren't my cup of tea. I like the softer bass.

Speakers have (to me) much more to do with the sound of any system than the amp (or wires, cd player etc).

All that being said, George I'm looking forward to hearing whatever your bringing this year.

FrankieD
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treitz3

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Post Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:34 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

Scarabeo wrote::-k If you stuck a Tube amp in front of me and a SS one - I could tell you the Tube over SS FAST....My Sunfire stuff sounds raspy to my Tube amp and you know how great the Sunfire sounds / Tube = smooth....

I don't even half to think twice! Not for a second or worry who I may offend or what ever - you would half to run a lot of tricks to fool me Tube vs SS, A lot of tricks and I am going off a 75 watt 700 Dollar cheapo Tube amp to compair!
Bob had a couple of tricks up his sleeve as well when he did the challenge too. It's not like what he did there came out into production units.

That said, he won the challenge. Hehe, it would be interesting if he would be up to a non-commercial, shits for giggles, just for the hell of it challenge like that again....at Carverfest'11.

Hmmmmm........I'll accept.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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F1nut

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Post Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:55 am

Re: BOB CARVER

treitz3 wrote: Bob had a couple of tricks up his sleeve as well when he did the challenge too. It's not like what he did there came out into production units.


For example....

He achieved a successful result by live tweaking a prototype, a process that proved unstable and unsuitable for series production. Later Carver himself, said that it was impossible to duplicate his results in production amplifiers.


and....

Carver was able to duplicate the sound of the selected C-J amp. However, the results were unstable and the similarity faded over time. Carver had to continually tweak the amps during the challenge and was never able to duplicate the sound over the long term, which is why the production models sounded nothing like the C-J.

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In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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OconeeOrange

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Post Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:51 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

treitz3 wrote:
Scarabeo wrote::-k If you stuck a Tube amp in front of me and a SS one - I could tell you the Tube over SS FAST....My Sunfire stuff sounds raspy to my Tube amp and you know how great the Sunfire sounds / Tube = smooth....

I don't even half to think twice! Not for a second or worry who I may offend or what ever - you would half to run a lot of tricks to fool me Tube vs SS, A lot of tricks and I am going off a 75 watt 700 Dollar cheapo Tube amp to compair!
Bob had a couple of tricks up his sleeve as well when he did the challenge too. It's not like what he did there came out into production units.

That said, he won the challenge. Hehe, it would be interesting if he would be up to a non-commercial, shits for giggles, just for the hell of it challenge like that again....at Carverfest'11.

Hmmmmm........I'll accept.



No, I don't read it like that. Bob does not seem to be a "shits for giggles" type of guy.
Bob knows all about the audio we try to read about and understand. That article proves it.

If Bob and I have anything in common, it might be preparation.
The rules were clearly laid out, and Bob used those.

Clearly, the opposition ( they clearly claimed that ) were like "TOM" and saw it as a way to prove for their high end mag that Bob could not deliver.

Bob, of course, just packed his bags and went to the games. He knew his stuff, and was confident all he needed was a fair opportunity. The experts there gave him that of course.

Like Bob, I once did that. I lived outside Charlotte like you do Tom, except as a cop, I did not live in your rich neighborhood. I bought my house for 27k - what did you pay ? Make no mistake, you provide well for yours, and I am in awe and support of guys like you. Call on me anytime, many of your neighbors have.- Guys like you make life for guys like me possible. Still, sometimes you miss the point, and in America, we are all the same guys.

I took up jogging at 35 and declared I was going to to run the Boston Marathon after years of alcohol abuse and no history of anything athletic in my past. Back then, you had to run a Marathon under 2:50 for a ticket to Boston, not like now when they let anyone in. Back then, people claimed to know someone who had been to Boston, but it was mostly myth. You can imagine how much crap I got from everyone once I drunkenly told them my goal.

Bob did the same with out alcohol. He just stepped up one day and challenged the best in the world. He claimed he could make an amp sound like whatever you choose. They got to choose the amp and Bob got no heads up on the choice.

Looking back, that was a step beyond reality, but that step actually brought high end audio to the masses. Sure, it ain't like Reagan bringing down the wall. but still incredible!!

I own Bob Carver equipment.

To me, it sounds incredible. Other high end or low end things may sound good or different, but make no mistake, Bob Carver rocks my home. Visit me and experience how good music can be. Different is not always better - Bob proved that, and then went on his merry way to make music his way. Either you like that or you do not. If you have a million dollars, Bob can make music sound however you choose.

In there somewhere is the answer for the rest of us -
Amps sound different, and different in different environments.
I personally, have software that can do a tube sound nearly as well as a tube.
Hard to believe, harder to swallow, :D but true today and improving daily.

That is what Bob did, but he was "the" computer. Not all us are Bob, and actually maybe none us are.

Bob took the challenge, spent great effort training for it - and won. If he had not won, Bob the man would still be the same great guy as he gave his best. The fact that he won is all we discuss, but if he had come up a little short as it was measured so tightly, no change. ](*,)

The fact that these critics became fans of Bob just like you and me says it all.

So Tom, if Bob don't take on yur challenge, I will.

I could never be a BOB CARVER, but I did go on to Boston and finish in 2:44 which was quite an accomplishment for a fat old drunk guy.

Not everyone is a Bob carver or a OO, but most here are.
We all just have achieved in different ways.

We all disagree with this--

Bob had a couple of tricks up his sleeve

Bob did not cheat - had no need for it.
Real guys just be themselves and let the chips fall.
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jjptkd

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Post Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:16 am

Re: BOB CARVER

Amen OO!! That was very well written and inspirational! Thank you sir. =D>
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Scarabeo

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Post Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:01 am

Re: BOB CARVER

jjptkd wrote:Amen OO!! That was very well written and inspirational! Thank you sir. =D>


Good Gosh? I am shocked you fell for that :-k OO, :^o shame on you! [-X

A well trained ear is the Best piece of any Audio Gear. One must spend endless hours listening to many setups over many many years to Gain the ear knowledge one needs to truly know what one hears! I have spent since the late 70's early 80's (Audio's Prime years) on a quest of ear training to find what comes to amount to I now think I know what I like. My Brain will change all that from time to time but to date I still think un-trained ears can cost you a lot of Money and Disappointment...

What Bob Carver did was use his Knowledge of the trained ear to Gain advantage and it went way beyond just Equipment used.
BillD, You will be forever with us! RIP until we meet again on the other side...
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