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BOB CARVER

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jjptkd

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Post Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

I'm just agreeing with OO statements of character, not really anything of audio facts. For Bob Carver to step up and win that challange was a great feat and so is running a marathon in 2:44. As far as golden ear audio mumbo jumbo, it's a well known fact that what may be pure audio bliss to one guy can sound like complete ass to the next, regardless of how much money or time or chosen equipment or room treatments or anything for that matter. When you're building the ultimate sound system, it is for yourself to decide if it sounds good and if the changes you make sound better to you or not (or atleast it should be in my opinion.) Chances are, if you put even an ounze of effort into matching componets and speaker placement with just about any level of gear, it's going to sound fantastic to Joe Blow off the street or to many of your friends who can appreciate a good tune.

I have some friends who have very respectable systems in their home and some friends who wouldn't waste their money updating their cheezy systems when they could spend that dough on more CDs to enjoy. I have one friend who easily has more money in his CD collection then most people here have in their whole setup, probably 10xs over, I'm not joking. He's still using his early '90s Sony rack set he bought from Circuit City and listens to his $30 headphones 99% of the time, happy as all hell. :D :D
Sunfire TGP-III
Sunfire 600x2
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Klipsch RSW 15
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kingman

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Post Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:29 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

As far as golden ear audio mumbo jum
I think we have a little of that on going...... :shock:
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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elgrau

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Post Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:30 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

what he said^^^^^
=D>

(jj.... not Kingman who jumped in there ahead of me....) :lol:
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
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Scarabeo

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Post Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:49 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

jjptkd wrote: As far as golden ear audio mumbo jumbo, it's a well known fact that what may be pure audio bliss to one guy can sound like complete ass to the next,


Yeah, You got that right! But knowing what someone likes/Listens for makes setting up a sound easier - What Bob did was not the same. He took a amp and tried to mimic it as so to fool what amp was what! That took a keen ear and a ton of knowledge on how the ear worked and then a ton of knowledge on how Audio Equipment worked but without the knowledge on how the ear/brain took in the sound this may not have worked. They heard what Bob wanted them to and that was the real Genus!

As far as the Golden ear mumbo jumbo goes - What sounds good today, May suck tomorrow - We all only have a Golden ear for a day. I may love a sound now but later it may become annoying and visa versa but one thing never changes,,,Once you heard great you never want to go backward - Would anyone not feel there missing something trading a Sunfire for a Sony???

Carver was great, Then I heard Sunfire, Sunfire was GREAT then I heard Tube, Tube is GREAT then I heard Tube with a Tube CD Player and that was the best then I heard TUBE Amp with Tube CD Player and Tube Pre - Now I want more power AAAAWWWWWW Yesterday I had the best but today I have better - Tomorrow ????
BillD, You will be forever with us! RIP until we meet again on the other side...
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treitz3

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"Julian"
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Post Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:01 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

OconeeOrange wrote:Clearly, the opposition ( they clearly claimed that ) were like "TOM" and saw it as a way to prove for their high end mag that Bob could not deliver.
I'm just saying the I would like to take the same challenge, if Bob would be interested. Knowing what I know about sound, I feel that I would be able to detect the subtlest of changes between the two amps. That's all, nothing more, nothing less. That said, I do not work for a high end magazine. In fact, I don't even subscribe to that magazine [never have] because of the biased opinions and money swayed reviews.

OconeeOrange wrote:I did not live in your rich neighborhood.
I do not live in a rich neighborhood. Far from it. If I did, there would be no issue with me having the custom built, dedicated audio room I have already designed in my head.

OconeeOrange wrote:Bob did the same with out alcohol.
Well, I wouldn't quite say that. He didn't.

OconeeOrange wrote:Amps sound different, and different in different environments.
I understand that but this was with different amp [SS-vs-tubed] in the same environment. I admit, maybe I missed your point here.... :-k

OconeeOrange wrote:So Tom, if Bob don't take on your challenge, I will.
That's cool. I'm always open to a challenge. I always trust my ears.

OconeeOrange wrote:We all disagree with this--

Bob had a couple of tricks up his sleeve

Bob did not cheat - had no need for it.
I don't recall anybody mentioning that he cheated before but if someone has, I don't think he cheated either. That said,I will admit he did have a couple of tricks up his sleeve that were unknown at the time of the challenge. He admits it as well and this has been documented on the Carverfest interviews. He did it on another experiment too. He tapped straight into the transformer on the pole with the coffee can amplifier, amongst other things to draw an "impossible" amount of power into that amplifier. It's something he does and is obviously very successful at. He has no regrets as that got him enough start up dough at the start of his career to start up Phase Linear.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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BillD

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Post Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:03 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

Well, if you read carefully, what Bob was listening for in the Carver Challenge was...NOTHING. He had the two amps connected to one speaker, and if the two amps were identical, their signals would be identical on each terminal of the speaker, and there would be zero difference between them and hence no sound. Not much of a musical ear involved with that, just good hearing. I'm sure when the amps weren't identical, the sounds that speaker made were UGLY.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
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Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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engtaz

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"TAZ"

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Post Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:41 am

Re: BOB CARVER

The null was the easier part of the equation. This gets you close but not home safe. He still had to tweek the amp to sound like the other amp. He did those adjustments by ear. For further thought, NO ONE thought he could do it and no one else had done it. Pretty good word for doing it in the first place. The only people that argue that it didn't happen were not there.
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
Bogen SRB20 is computer amp
Carver PM-350 donated for youth church use
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frankieD

Frankie The Mouth

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Post Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:52 am

Re: BOB CARVER

engtaz wrote:The null was the easier part of the equation. This gets you close but not home safe. He still had to tweek the amp to sound like the other amp. He did those adjustments by ear. For further thought, NO ONE thought he could do it and no one else had done it. Pretty good word for doing it in the first place. The only people that argue that it didn't happen were not there.



Thank you Roy.

I couldn't have said it better.
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Toy Maker

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Post Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:14 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

@ Tom.....

After last Carverfest... I'm not so sure you can hear much of anything man :-k
Not being a dik or anything, but there were 5-6 of us that heard what you didn't.
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it 'cause nobody else will

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
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TNRabbit

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Post Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:53 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

Toy Maker wrote:@ Tom.....

After last Carverfest... I'm not so sure you can hear much of anything man :-k
Not being a dik or anything, but there were 5-6 of us that heard what you didn't.




lol
TNRabbit
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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treitz3

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"Julian"
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Post Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:03 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

Yeah, you hit me after 12 hours of heavy drinking and say that shit along with 5-6 other folks pounding my brain at the same time. I hear ya'. Beat a man while he's not in full capacity.

Hit me when I'm sober, in full capacity and you won't say anything but....damn, that kid's good.

Hell, you hit me up when I was incapacitated and I still won the challenge of being able to detect a difference between lossless and the actual CD. Bring it and talk your shit, bitch.

We'll see who gets bragging rights for the following year........ :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, :rolleyes:

Did I forget.... :rolleyes:

The challenge still stands.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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treitz3

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"Julian"
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Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:08 pm

Re: BOB CARVER

Toy Maker wrote:Not being a dik or anything, but there were 5-6 of us that heard what you didn't.
Not being a dik or anything but NOBODY heard on your rig what I did until I pointed it out.

THEN you heard it [out of 6 or more folks...]

I thought so. :-"

Spank that monkey more.....if it makes you feel better. :D
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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Magic_Physicist

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Post Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:48 am

Re: BOB CARVER

Well I'm glad Double O doesn't drive across the country to fish since the trout in my pond are my pets 8)

BUT.......Bob Carver owes me an autograph :D

Carver will always be Lynwood Washington to me you wild East Coasters :lol:

I was one of the first customers to buy Carver works of art.......used to buy and test them and probably piss them off at Magnolia High-Fi in Lynwood when I would bring my Led Zeppelin I cd over there and see how loud I could run a Carver amp on other speakers or Carver amps at top volume on the originals ALS and the 2nd version......they finally sent me over to Bob's building to get my ALS X-overs and ribbons to try to blow up with the M-1.0t and the M-400........still using the Phase Linear 4000.

Never thought about an autograph back then but you guys have showed me so many of them and before I go to up to that Spirit in the Sky I need Bob to autograph all of what I have.

Like I said here before I still even have the boxes they all came in except the ALS boxes that my current wife bitched about me keeping and I ended up burning them out back (so I guess the ashes are still here)

I think Bob Carver needs to visit the Olympic Peninsula during the summer 8)

Ok I better go watch an old movie and fall asleep.......goodnight!


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