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IS KingMan Full of Crap

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OconeeOrange

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Post Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:26 am

IS KingMan Full of Crap

I have speakers rated to 440w at 6ohm.
I was pulling them by biamping a Carver 705 - 125@8ohm each channel which equaled to about 3-4 hundred at 6ohm I guess.
It sounded very good. Really, it sounded very good. After a year of OCCD, a Sunfire 600X2 fell into my lap.
A Carver 705 is like an excellent Honda Motorcycle. A 600X2 is like a Harley Davidson.
I don't give a crap about 5.1, 12.1, dolbies, doobies, or any of that other stuff in my main system.

I jerked out the 705, plugged in the Sunfire and I was in heaven.


Tonight I got called out on it. ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

"Was the Sunfire a big improvement ?"
(well yes, well maybe, well why would you ask that)

"Did the sound improve ?"
(yes, well maybe, at least in my mind it did)

As I thought about it, I came clean to the caller and admitted I was confused. At the time I replaced the 705 with the 600X2, I also replaced the 8 inch sub with the 12 inch one. The difference is noticeable. My system went from excellent to better.

How much was due to the amp replacement and how much was due to the new sub ???????????

Now that KingMan forced me into reality, I would guess that the new amp made little difference and the sub made a lot.

Here is my advice as to your set up --->

If KingMan calls, never answer.
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nooshinjohn

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Post Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:37 am

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

That is why I chose to go tubes...


Now if I could only get Bob to wind some transformers, and these would be good to go. :-" :-" ](*,)
Carver Statement Reference Monoblocks!!!The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier.[/size]
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Scarabeo

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Post Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:11 am

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

nooshinjohn wrote:That is why I chose to go tubes...


Now if I could only get Bob to wind some transformers, and these would be good to go. :-" :-" ](*,)


I second that! Tubes RULE!!! Your living the Dream my Friend.

My Little Tube amp has brought me more "JOY" then any SS amp I ever had Second only to a old Girl friend that could :-#
BillD, You will be forever with us! RIP until we meet again on the other side...
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engtaz

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"TAZ"

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Post Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:42 am

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

"If KingMan calls, never answer."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
Bogen SRB20 is computer amp
Carver PM-350 donated for youth church use
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Rainman

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Post Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:15 am

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

I'm not sure why but for some reason if you only change one thing at a time it seems to be much easier to determine exactly what made it sound different. :-k
On a more relevant note, why don't you unhook your sub and listen to both amps in your system without a sub. That will be a much better way to determine the differences between the two amps because the sound that your sub ads has nothing to do with what the amplifiers are going to put out. I know that the sub needs to blend properly with the rest of the system and it may blend with one amp better than the other, but the only way to note the differences between the two amps is to listen to each of them without the influence of the sub. When you are done with that process then power the sub back up and listen to each amplifier with the sub. I think you might really be surprised at what you will learn about your system if you take the time to listen to it in those modes... BTW: Kingman's not even close to full of it, I'm sure because you should see some of the guys on a few race teams I have worked for. Some had the runs at both ends so bad they could $hit through a screen and never hit a wire and yell through the shop and never hit an ear... Kinda like this..... :-&

Rainman
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Question: Do you know why turds are tapered on the ends? Answer: So your asshole doesn't slam shut..

Carver- SDA490t, SDA450, 2 TFM45's, TFM15, CT23, CT28v, CT27v, Linn Kaber speakers, Sunfire crm2's, PS Audio Statement speaker cables and I/C's, A.P.C. power
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jjptkd

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Post Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:29 am

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

I would agree that the sub probably made the biggest noticable improvement (especially with the CRS-3s) in your system when swapping the two items out. The differences I heard between the Sunfire and Carvers were very subtle but there, mainly in the very upper end of the treble. As far as power, the 600x2 is sitting idle in your system as I'm sure you could power atleast 5 pairs of CRS-3s with that bad boy and still not strain it. The more I look at the specs of the 705x the more I like it. It uses the same output devices as the Lightstar and runs in class A/B, which is almost unheard of for a Carver.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_4_2/av705.html
Sunfire TGP-III
Sunfire 405x5
PS Audio DL-III DAC
(2 Pairs) Klipsch Chorus II's
Klipsch RSW 15
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elgrau

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Post Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:56 am

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

"On a more relevant note, why don't you unhook your sub and listen to both amps in your system without a sub."

'Cause he gifted the 705 to me..... :D

I'm still "repairing" it, but based on these comments, I may give it a shot re my current 300x2 vs TFM-42 "challenge"...who knows, maybe the 705 ( in biamp mode) will sound better than either?!
1st blush, I agree with jj: the Sunfire seems to have a tad more detail in the high/treble range in my system than the Carver 42. It also seems to better "smooth out" the frequency spectrum response of my "sphere's" and eliminates their "bass favortism" that manifests with them with the TFM-42. HOWEVER, I kind of miss that (at least at 1st I have/did) and felt it was a nice "personality trait" of the sphere's (or "soul" of the 42?) vs (e.g.) the more natural/flat bass response of my EPI 1000's in my other (family room) system. Get's to the heart of "compares": what sounds best to you is best! But I got a ways to go with my "evaluation" and plan a final listen to ~10 "favorite" songs with 1st one amp then the other and "decide" after that which I prefer...YMMV! THEN I may try the 300x2 on the EPI 1000's just to see what THAT sounds like. Fortunitely, only my sphere's have biamp capability, so I won't have to try the 705 on the 1000's! Too much work, all this "comparing"; I really just want to LISTEN!
But with your system (subs, etc., "hungry" speakers), my guess is that you a lot better off with the 600x2 than the 705 biamped, OO (IMHO!...plus I not "re-gifting" the 705 back to you :lol: !). Ed
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
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Don

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Post Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:53 pm

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

Somehow this thread drifted from the original reason for the post: "Re: Is Kingman Full of Crap" :-k :-k

Let's get back on topic. :rolleyes: Kingman, you can thank me later! :lol: :lol: :lol:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.
— Thomas Paine


"Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of value" Albert Einstein

"Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them". Charlie Reese

"The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett


"Kindness is a language that the Deaf can hear and the Blind can see." Mark Twain

RIP Bill D.
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kingman

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Post Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:18 pm

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

OK, OK....I know everyone has been waiting for my reply....well, let's set the record straight....I was talking to TNRabbit when OO chimed in so...
If KingMan calls, never answer.
...is technically wrong and without merit. As far as questioning Bill's system, I fully admit the influence of drink and claim temporary memory loss. As far as being full of crap, I thought that was a prerequisite for forum admittance. If you look back at my in depth technical postings and vastly superior knowledge of ALL things whether audio or not, you will figure that out for yourselves. I plead my case and lay my fate on the alter of the forum. Remember...judge not yet I shall immediately judge you back!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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OconeeOrange

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:24 pm

Post Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:58 pm

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

kingman wrote:OK, OK....I know everyone has been waiting for my reply....well, let's set the record straight....I was talking to TNRabbit when OO chimed in so...As far as questioning Bill's system, I fully admit the influence of drink and claim temporary memory loss.


Yea, we were all at the Pizza Hut drinking cheap beer.
If I implied I just answered the tele, opps. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Snoop65

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Post Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

I just want to know if he wears that crown all the time O:)
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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Eddie

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Post Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:46 pm

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

If he did he would be working for Burger King! LOL! Sorry had to! LOL!
Good judgment comes from experience,but experience usually comes from bad judgment.

The best thing is to learn from others that have mastered the one thing you need to learn!

I would tell you to go to hell but I already work there and I don't want to see your ugly face every day!
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BillD

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Post Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:35 am

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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Don

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Post Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:55 am

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

Eddie wrote:If he did he would be working for Burger King! LOL! Sorry had to! LOL!


Oh, he doesn't? :lol: :lol: :lol:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.
— Thomas Paine


"Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of value" Albert Einstein

"Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them". Charlie Reese

"The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett


"Kindness is a language that the Deaf can hear and the Blind can see." Mark Twain

RIP Bill D.
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kingman

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Post Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:57 pm

Re: IS KingMan Full of Crap

Snoop65 wrote:I just want to know if he wears that crown all the time O:)

I only take it off for 2 things..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!

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