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That tube sound?

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OconeeOrange

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Post Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:05 pm

Re: That tube sound?

stereo_buff wrote:You mention that you are using a Sunfire 600 X 2 amplifier; are you using the voltage or the current outputs? If not already, try using the current outputs. This will give the most 'tube-like' sound, or so it's said.



In the manual. Bob tells us how to biamp that using voltage and current - I do that and while I don't know if it is "tube" - sounds great.
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skip

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Post Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:10 am

Re: That tube sound?

Try these tubes in your 490t, I'm using a quad in my C-19 and am very pleased with the result.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl? ... air-Gold-P
Sasquatch
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David Mc

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Post Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:59 am

Re: That tube sound?

First of all I want to thank all of you who posted back; treitz3, F1nut, TNRabbit, kingman, Scarabeo, OconeeOrange, stereo_buff, jjptkd and skip…

After reading the postings, I ordered two tubes from thetubestore.com . I picked a pair of matched and balanced JJ E88CC Gold pin tubes. They were modestly priced, $29/tube, and claimed to have a warmer, smoother sound. I also got the Duende Criatura rings based on F1nut’s advice.

The tubes arrived on Friday and I replaced the old tubes. The outgoing tubes were labeled E88CC USSR 0TK1. I have no idea how old they were. As I put the system back together I was thinking that this may be a very subtle effect and I’d have to listen carefully for a difference. Wrong!

The first disc I played was Fever, Ted Heath & His Music, a German Import disc under the London label. What I noticed first of all was a much wider soundstage, way beyond the speakers and with no sonic holography, with all the instruments clear and distinct, each from their own location. At one point there was a cymbal crash and then the horns come in. I could hear the dying sustain from the cymbals while the louder horns were coming in from the right. I had noticed a much clearer distinct soundstage when I added the Sunfire Symphonic Reference Preamp to my system some time ago. With these tubes it became much clearer and better. It also seemed to be curved around the listener instead of flat in front. It certainly seemed more distinctly three dimensional. Overall the music seemed more real. Maybe that’s the definition of musicality.

That night I stayed up late playing a lot of discs. The rock music changed too. I noticed that an overdriven electric guitar had a more buzzing, fuzzy sound. Again sounding more like it does coming right out of a guitar amp. The hard hitting, high dynamic range parts also seemed to have a slightly muted, or softer punch. A small trade-off. It seemed too for most of the music that I had to turn the volume up a little from before to get the same sound level. Not that that’s a problem, the Sunfire 600 X 2 has ample reserve and power is cheap.

Over the weekend I played tons of old favorites. In many of them I heard things I had never heard before. On Led Zeppelin IV, When the Levee Breaks, which I’ve only heard at least a thousand times over the last 40 years, I heard percussion instruments for the first time.

Now I’m wondering what other wonderful tubes are out there to explore. But at the same time I just feel like enjoying these for a while
Sunfire II Signature Amp 600, TFM-35, (M-1.0) X2, M-400, C-4000, C-1, Sunfire Symphonic Reference Preamp, Sunfire Classic Vacuum Tube Control Center
Mv-5, SDA-490t, ALS Silver, Sunfire CRM-2, TS EQS-12, Shanling SCD-T200A
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BillD

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Post Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:34 pm

Re: That tube sound?

Plus, those tubes are just now barely broken in.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
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F1nut

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Post Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:33 pm

Re: That tube sound?

Nice review David, thanks and welcome to the wonderful world of tube rolling.
Political Correctness...defined

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Snoop65

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Post Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:54 pm

Re: That tube sound?

David Mc wrote:First of all I want to thank all of you who posted back; treitz3, F1nut, TNRabbit, kingman, Scarabeo, OconeeOrange, stereo_buff, jjptkd and skip…

After reading the postings, I ordered two tubes from thetubestore.com . I picked a pair of matched and balanced JJ E88CC Gold pin tubes. They were modestly priced, $29/tube, and claimed to have a warmer, smoother sound. I also got the Duende Criatura rings based on F1nut’s advice.

The tubes arrived on Friday and I replaced the old tubes. The outgoing tubes were labeled E88CC USSR 0TK1. I have no idea how old they were. As I put the system back together I was thinking that this may be a very subtle effect and I’d have to listen carefully for a difference. Wrong!

The first disc I played was Fever, Ted Heath & His Music, a German Import disc under the London label. What I noticed first of all was a much wider soundstage, way beyond the speakers and with no sonic holography, with all the instruments clear and distinct, each from their own location. At one point there was a cymbal crash and then the horns come in. I could hear the dying sustain from the cymbals while the louder horns were coming in from the right. I had noticed a much clearer distinct soundstage when I added the Sunfire Symphonic Reference Preamp to my system some time ago. With these tubes it became much clearer and better. It also seemed to be curved around the listener instead of flat in front. It certainly seemed more distinctly three dimensional. Overall the music seemed more real. Maybe that’s the definition of musicality.

That night I stayed up late playing a lot of discs. The rock music changed too. I noticed that an overdriven electric guitar had a more buzzing, fuzzy sound. Again sounding more like it does coming right out of a guitar amp. The hard hitting, high dynamic range parts also seemed to have a slightly muted, or softer punch. A small trade-off. It seemed too for most of the music that I had to turn the volume up a little from before to get the same sound level. Not that that’s a problem, the Sunfire 600 X 2 has ample reserve and power is cheap.

Over the weekend I played tons of old favorites. In many of them I heard things I had never heard before. On Led Zeppelin IV, When the Levee Breaks, which I’ve only heard at least a thousand times over the last 40 years, I heard percussion instruments for the first time.

Now I’m wondering what other wonderful tubes are out there to explore. But at the same time I just feel like enjoying these for a while




Now you have to try some Amperex tubes. Be prepared for a surprise! O:)
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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TNRabbit

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Post Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:49 pm

Re: That tube sound?

So, David; how are things since you have a chance to burn those tubes in some more?
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OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

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treitz3

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"Julian"
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Post Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:02 pm

Nice bump, Gary!

David, that was a great review. Sounds like you have a good ear for listening. How are things moving along now?
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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kingman

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Post Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:45 pm

Re: That tube sound?

David...have you stopped listening long enough to post a reply??? :lol:
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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Zoot Horn

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Post Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:20 pm

Re: That tube sound?

I have some jj goldpins in my pre-- they seemed to 'liven" things up a bit--actually a pretty darn good new production tube,,give em' a chance to burn in,and they become a tad mellower--smoother on the top end.Congrats--enjoy.
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engtaz

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"TAZ"

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Post Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:34 am

Re: That tube sound?

Great review. Thanks for sharing.
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
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Carver PM-350 donated for youth church use
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Scarabeo

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SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Post Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:19 pm

Re: That tube sound?

engtaz wrote:Great review. Thanks for sharing.


Yes, Thanks for sharing! =D> =D> =D>
BillD, You will be forever with us! RIP until we meet again on the other side...
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David Mc

Newbie

Posts: 18

Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:40 am

Location: Seattle, WA

Post Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:30 pm

Re: That tube sound?

Thanks for the inquiry. In reply to Kingman, I have been spending a lot more time listening than posting or reading the board. But like anything else, sometimes it leads you in new directions.

Now it's time for the confession. I found a pretty good deal on another player. See the photo.
Shanling SCD-T200-1.jpg
Shanling SCD-T200-1.jpg (38.26 KiB) Viewed 504 times


It's a combo CD/SACD player with a tube output stage. I don't think these are made anymore. How I came across this player is sort of a long "shaggy dog" story. I answered an ad on Audiogon. An asian man in LA directed me to another asian man, whom I was warned didn't speak much English, here in Seattle. He works out of his house and he builds tube amps, speakers, etc. He buys these Chinese made SACD players from the mfg when they have returns, probably dirt cheap. He then goes in and repairs them and does a few mods. I purchased one for just over a grand. I already had a few SACD Hybrid discs. I began playing them. I was impressed with the clarity and raw presence of the instruments in the soundstage. Of course I bought a few more SACDs. Then after about a month the SACD stage on the player crapped out. I called my Chinese friend he swapped out the player I had for a newer one (in the picture) that he has done some substantial modifications to. I'd have to say, I'm really happy with this player and the 490t. I go back and forth between them. I'm also a little taken with the Fritz Lang Metropolis Art Deco look of this player. People come over to the house and immediately ask "what's that?"

The man who did the mods said he got rid of the Chinese tubes (6N3)and replaced them with GE5670s.

I'm going to go back to this guy's house sometime. He has a listening room that is incredible. He has some amps he's made that have these tubes as big as lightbulbs. He was saying that he searches eBay and buys these 1934 Westinghouse tubes for anywhere from $500 to $800.

I know this is a long answer to a simple question, but I'm loving the tube world and trying not to go crazy spending too much.
Sunfire II Signature Amp 600, TFM-35, (M-1.0) X2, M-400, C-4000, C-1, Sunfire Symphonic Reference Preamp, Sunfire Classic Vacuum Tube Control Center
Mv-5, SDA-490t, ALS Silver, Sunfire CRM-2, TS EQS-12, Shanling SCD-T200A
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kingman

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

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Post Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:09 pm

Re: That tube sound?

MOTHER OF ALL CREATURES LARGE AND SMALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is BEAUTIFUL!!!!!! (faint)
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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treitz3

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"Julian"
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Post Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:42 pm

Damn, Wayne.....breathe......breathe.....breathe.....

David Mc wrote:...... I'm loving the tube world and trying not to go crazy spending too much.
I hear ya' there, brother. Same here. I'm glad you decided to heed some advice and not start replacing your system. It sounds like you made some good decisions. The Shanling is a respectable unit. We did a head to head with the Shanling and the Jolida JD100 and the Shanling had a slight advantage over the Jolida with the tubes [on the Shanling] being bypassed and the same cables being used. We would have done a comparison between the Jolida and the Shanling using the tubes but the tubes were stock and after about 2 seconds of music, it was determined that the stock tubes just plain out sucked....so we scrapped that idea.

Do you happen to have a list of the mods he did to the Shanling?
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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