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Silver Seven

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Snoop65

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Post Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:43 am

Silver Seven

Does anybody know if at the time of it's introduction if the Silver Seven was the most powerful tube amp ever made? If so was it's 375 watt power rating chosen in honor of Bob's Phase Linear amp (I think the 700) that had a 350 watt power rating and was the most powerful amp ever produced at it's time? Just one of those 2a.m. and can't sleep thoughts. O:)
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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AlexSauter

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Post Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:31 am

Re: Silver Seven

Actually, according to Bob, the SS tube amps have a rating of 60 watts per pair of tubes (not including the center tube which is used as a regulator). This makes the amps 420 watts per channel, and that is VERY conservative. Bob said at CF 2010 that the Silver Eagle tubes can put out 100 watts per pair of tubes, making the Silver Seven 700 watts per channel!!

Following this math, conservatively, the Silver Sixes are 360 Watts per channel, the Silver Sevens are 420 Watts per channel, and the Silver Seven MK II (Silver Nines) are 540 Watts per channel.
Following this math, full power, the Silver Sixes are 600 Watts per channel, the Silver Sevens are 700 Watts per channel, and the Silver Seven MK II (Silver Nines) are 900 Watts per channel.

I think it is safe to say, at the time, the Silver Series Tube amps were among the top tube amps at the time. Also to this day, Bob says there are very few things that can beat a pair of Silver Nines!!
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BillD wrote:Well, some people are glass half empty people and some are glass half full. Being an engineer, I just think the glass is the wrong size.


My system (sitting in the garage):

(Stereo System)
Modified Carver AL III+'s (Pushed into the corners to make room for the ALS speakers)
Modified CarverFest 2011 20w tube amplifier
Carver Pro PT-1800
Sunfire Prototype TGA-2375
Carver TX-2 Tuner (not used)
Logitech Squeezebox (replaced Tuner & dad's CD player)
CARVERaudio Directional RCA interconnects
RCA-Headphone jack for iPod & iPhone
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F1nut

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:22 am

Re: Silver Seven

The Manley Ichiban tube mono blocks put out at least 600wpc and they also made a custom 1000wpc version.
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In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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Snoop65

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:23 am

Re: Silver Seven

F1nut wrote:The Manley Ichiban tube mono blocks put out at least 600wpc and they also made a custom 1000wpc version.




When were the Manleys introduced?
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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jjptkd

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:18 am

Re: Silver Seven

"The Manley Ichiban and 500 watt, later known as 600 watt monoblocks were built at the old VTL factory back before the Manley-VTL split-up that took place in 1993. They were at the time Manley's flagship models in the Designer's Reference Series. Both were 12-output tube designs. The Ichibans were triode strapped for about 200 watts output power (hence the smaller output transformer) and were found in both EL34 and KT90 tube complements. KT90's first showed up in 1990. The 500's or 600's were ultra-linear configured (with a much bigger output tranny) and used either GE 6550A's in the 500's before 1990 or KT90's in the 600's after 1990. The Input tube was always the 12AT7A or 6201. Some early models used the 12BH7A for driver tubes although most of the actual production models used 6350 driver tubes. Those two tube types have the grids and cathodes swapped on the pinout so make a big note that the 6350 and the 12BH7A are NOT interchangeable without reworking the circuit board!"

Taken from their website.

http://www.manleylabs.com/containerpage ... hiban.html
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Sunfire 405x5
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jjptkd

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:20 am

Re: Silver Seven

What year(s) were Bob Carver's tube amps built?
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Sunfire 405x5
PS Audio DL-III DAC
(2 Pairs) Klipsch Chorus II's
Klipsch RSW 15
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kingman

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:25 am

Re: Silver Seven

They were built between 88 and 93. Silver 6 91-93, Silver 7 88-93, Silver 7 MKII(9) 93. I think.
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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Snoop65

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:47 am

Re: Silver Seven

One thing about the Manleys is they always used some weird ohm like 5 or something to list their wattage specs while everybody else starts off with 8 ohms.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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F1nut

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:15 pm

Re: Silver Seven

The Ichibans were triode strapped for about 200 watts output power


Oops, I had them mixed up...thanks.

One thing about the Manleys is they always used some weird ohm like 5 or something to list their wattage specs while everybody else starts off with 8 ohms.


Tube amps are a little different than SS amps when it comes to the power ratings. Tube amp power ratings generally don't change much with the load.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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kingman

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:29 pm

Re: Silver Seven

F1nut wrote:
The Ichibans were triode strapped for about 200 watts output power


Oops, I had them mixed up...thanks.

One thing about the Manleys is they always used some weird ohm like 5 or something to list their wattage specs while everybody else starts off with 8 ohms.


Tube amps are a little different than SS amps when it comes to the power ratings. Tube amp power ratings generally don't change much with the load.

Jesse...please explain that for the electronically challenged like me. #-o
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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BillD

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:31 pm

Re: Silver Seven

Jesse's right, because tube amps are primarily current sources (transconductance) rather than the voltage sources (transimpedance) that solid state amplifiers mostly are.

Transconductance amplifiers produce output current proportional to the voltage input. As such, they are known as voltage controlled current sources.

Transimpedance amplifiers produce output voltage proportional to the current input. Thus, they are called current controlled voltage sources.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
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frankieD

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:42 pm

Re: Silver Seven

BillD wrote:Jesse's right, because tube amps are primarily current sources (transconductance) rather than the voltage sources (transimpedance) that solid state amplifiers mostly are.

Transconductance amplifiers produce output current proportional to the voltage input. As such, they are known as voltage controlled current sources.

Transimpedance amplifiers produce output voltage proportional to the current input. Thus, they are called current controlled voltage sources.


Thanks BillD, that clears it up for everyone ???

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Snoop65

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(pair of) SILVER-7t's

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:23 pm

Re: Silver Seven

F1nut wrote:
The Ichibans were triode strapped for about 200 watts output power


Oops, I had them mixed up...thanks.

One thing about the Manleys is they always used some weird ohm like 5 or something to list their wattage specs while everybody else starts off with 8 ohms.


Tube amps are a little different than SS amps when it comes to the power ratings. Tube amp power ratings generally don't change much with the load.



That makes sense. That explains the multiple speaker posts on tube amps 8 ohm, 4ohm, 2ohm etc.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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OconeeOrange

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:56 pm

Re: Silver Seven

BillD wrote:Jesse's right, because tube amps are primarily current sources (transconductance) rather than the voltage sources (transimpedance) that solid state amplifiers mostly are.

Transconductance amplifiers produce output current proportional to the voltage input. As such, they are known as voltage controlled current sources.

Transimpedance amplifiers produce output voltage proportional to the current input. Thus, they are called current controlled voltage sources.


On the back of my Sunfire "voltage" and "current" are labeled there with separate outputs. Like Bob said in the manual, ran one to the ribbons and one to the woofers.
So what does that mean?
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BillD

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Post Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:13 pm

Re: Silver Seven

Not much. Bob put a resistor between the voltage source output and the current source output do reduce the damping of the amplifier. He feels that gives an amp a more tubey sound (I call it tubby). What I'm talking about is all about Ohm's law. If you maintain a constant voltage, when the impedance goes down, the current must go up to maintain that constant voltage. With a constant current amplifier, if the impedance goes down, it actually requires less voltage to maintain the constant current.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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