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Defect

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Snoop65

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Post Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:46 pm

Defect

If you were to leave the Carver or Sunfire camp and use another amplifier what amp or amps would you consider using? My two choices would be Mcintosh or Krell
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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jjptkd

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:06 am

Re: Defect

I've been fighting the temptation of giving the Aragon 8008bb a shot.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_4 ... 008bb.html
Sunfire TGP-III
Sunfire 405x5
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TORO3

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:12 am

Re: Defect

Recently ran across a Conrad-Johnson MF2300 for $500 down in Tucson. Couldn't resist the deal so I pulled the trigger. Sounds pretty good, but I still like my Sunfire Cinema Seven.
Sunfire CRM2s, Sunfire CRS3C, Sunfire Cinema Seven, Harmon Kardon AVR240, Sony RCD-W5000

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F1nut

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:13 am

Re: Defect

My two choices would be Mcintosh or Krell


It would be hard to pick two more different "house" sounds.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



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jjptkd

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:26 am

Re: Defect

I wouldn't mind checking out Classe' either. Heard a 25 one time and always thought it would nice to play with one in my setup. I don't waste time drooling over $10k+ amplifiers or even $5k+ If I did, it would be one of Bob Carver's Cherry 180s. :-"
Sunfire TGP-III
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(2 Pairs) Klipsch Chorus II's
Klipsch RSW 15
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jjptkd

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:07 pm

Re: Defect

I started out with Carver seperates (hand me downs from relatives) and was happy for a long time but curiousity eventually got the best of me. I defected for about a year, trying different amplifiers I could buy for around the same price points, Yamaha, Adcom, Parasound, HKs, Acurus etc. and ended up coming around full circle back to Carver. Now, with the influence of this forum, Scarabeo namely, I'm running a full Sunfire setup and couldn't be happier. To be totally honest, I really liked the smooth sound of the Mosfet Adcoms, the 5500 & 5800 are two great amplifiers. The Adcoms run very hot though, which is what prompted me to sell my old 5800. The Acurus 200x3 I had was also a very nice sounding and powerful amplifier, probably my favorite non-Carver/Sunfire that I've owned, which is why I've always been so curious about the Aragon 8008bb.
Sunfire TGP-III
Sunfire 405x5
PS Audio DL-III DAC
(2 Pairs) Klipsch Chorus II's
Klipsch RSW 15
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elgrau

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:14 pm

Re: Defect

I like the "concept" of Carver/Sunfire "vintage" amps probably just as much as I do how they sound: i.e., I feel I'm getting the most amp for the money (American crafted, powerful, etc., and AFFORDABLE). Yes, I COULD spend $5-$10K on some "super amp" but I'm almost positive that I'd be "disappointed" in the amount of improvement in sound that I'd hear (if any; but probably some, just not "enough" to justify the 10x more $'s that I spent.... Just IMHO; I'm sure others disagree. And they MIGHT have more $'s than brains, too..again, just IMHO).



"If you want to look at your equipment or show it off to friends, you buy Krell, McIntosh, Levinson, etc. If you want to listen to your equipment and maximize your ROI, you buy something else."

Yeah, I somewhat agree BillD and had some stuff along those lines to post (people who spend that much don't really listen that much, etc., etc., just "Hey listen to the bass in MY system and wow it's real loud and I paid $100k for it...wow!" ), but figured that probably stereotyping too much and whatever floats your boat, etc. I'm sure not all folks who spend 5-6 figures on audio gear do it for those mentioned reasons. If money were no object, most audiophiles would almost certainly not end up with vintage Carver/Sunfire gear. Which is fine by me: who needs them bidding up the stuff WE want to outrageous amounts anyway? :)
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
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Snoop65

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Defect

I wouldn't go for a new Krell they are WAY too expensive. I would go with a S series like a 300s or 200s.I would alao consider the Krell FPB series. A Mcintosh I would buy a MC252 new. I agree Adcom has made some nice amps too. None of these will pull me away from my Lightstar though.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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treitz3

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:37 pm

Well, let's see.

Hmmm, let's see. I have already defected even though I still own 4-5 pieces of Carver gear. I currently have two Anthem1 tube amps. What I have on my list of things to own are Bob's 180's, the Manley500 and beyond that? I'd have to hear them first but I wouldn't discount any Cary tube amps in the future. Even though the one I had running in my rig that didn't have the "magic" I was looking for, it damn sure had the magic in other rigs I have heard it on. Not a big fan of McIntosh here, any of the ones I have heard and you will NEVER see a Krell in my rig. I'm not a fan of sterile, I want musicality.

The possibilities are seemingly endless and the one thing I will always abide by? Tubes. Yeah, baby, tubes. They rock my world.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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OconeeOrange

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:56 pm

Re: Well, let's see.

treitz3 wrote:HI'm not a fan of sterile, I want musicality.

The possibilities are seemingly endless and the one thing I will always abide by? Tubes. Yeah, baby, tubes. They rock my world.


Damn I have not owned a tube since solid state came in around the 1930's I guess. I believe it was after my stint in WWI.

I keep watching them, but damn the used ones are high !!!

Maybe someday --- [-o<
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treitz3

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:26 pm

No worries....

Hey Bill, I know you have other priorities right now that don't concern audio. That said, whenever you are ready, just name a budget and there will be a plethora of options available to ya'. No worries, mate.

FYI, I purchased both of mine for only around 5-600 smackers each. If you have the right connections, tube ownership isn't really that expensive at all, contrary to popular belief. Add to that, if you don't like the sound? All you have to do is change out the tubes.....not the amplifier. [Or whatever piece of tubed gear you have running in your rig]

Tubes them self can run quite costly but again, if you have connections they aren't more than a fraction of what you see them listed for. That is, unless you are looking for a rare or highly desired tube or set of tubes. If you ever come to this point? You have such a connection. :wink:
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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Snoop65

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:46 pm

Re: Well, let's see.

treitz3 wrote:Hmmm, let's see. I have already defected even though I still own 4-5 pieces of Carver gear. I currently have two Anthem1 tube amps. What I have on my list of things to own are Bob's 180's, the Manley500 and beyond that? I'd have to hear them first but I wouldn't discount any Cary tube amps in the future. Even though the one I had running in my rig that didn't have the "magic" I was looking for, it damn sure had the magic in other rigs I have heard it on. Not a big fan of McIntosh here, any of the ones I have heard and you will NEVER see a Krell in my rig. I'm not a fan of sterile, I want musicality.

The possibilities are seemingly endless and the one thing I will always abide by? Tubes. Yeah, baby, tubes. They rock my world.


Every time I have heard Krells they didn't sound sterile to me. Maybe because they were hooked up to tube preamps ususally Audio Research. I guess it's all about associated equipment sometimes. They were also always hooked up to some type of Wilsons. I think I will always have a tube preamp solid state amp set up. I like the best of both worlds. I have never heard them but I guess Silver Sevens or Audio Research 600's or other mega watt tube amps might give you everything.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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treitz3

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:59 pm

Re: Defect

Snoop, when it comes to the Krells? They have earned a reputation with me on their own. I have heard many models on many a rig in many an environment. At first, I will admit, I was impressed at the detail and some of the other attributes they had to offer. Then, as I listened further and brought some of my own listening material in, things seemed to change. I would venture to say that the best way to describe what I heard without trying to brand bash was that I noticed that I never got around to tapping my toes in sheer enjoyment of the music. It was just reproduced music, hence, the word sterile.

While it was nice at first, it got old quickly. The next time you hear a Krell, take some of your own listening material in and see if you feel like tapping your toes to the music or whether you just listen. Your observations may be different than mine, as we all appreciate different sounds and we are all also on our own path along our audio journey. Whatever you come up with is good. I'm just saying that maybe you should take another listen before you spend that kind of dough on something that might end up becoming nothing more than just the flavor of the month.

For me, there is a huge difference between "sterile" and seemingly "clinical" and "musical".
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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treitz3

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:19 pm

Further reflected thoughts.....

The one thing I don't get is that while I love tubes? The McIntosh amps don't really thrill me either. I have heard the lower lines all the way up to the.......[all I know is that it took four large men to carry them into the listening room, PER amp and that the price tag was over 100K for the McIntosh's tube amplifiers alone].........big boys and the sound was, shall we say....unimpressive. Especially for the amount of money spent on the room(s) and associated gear(s) they were hooked up too. This is up to and including a set of SC's that were $24,00.00 a pop. Yes, that's each.....not for the pair.

How they screw up the sound of tubes, no matter the speaker, room, gear or medium is beyond me.

Another company does this as well, with even more detrimental properties to the reproduction. That company would be MBL. Some of the most expensive crap I have ever heard in my life. Keep in mind, I have heard expensive gear and speakers that I do not hold the same observations about. I hold no bias toward any gear or manufacturer.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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nooshinjohn

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Post Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Defect

I will build my own...
Carver Statement Reference Monoblocks!!!The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier.[/size]
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