Defect

Carver Home Audio (Stereo) Discussions and Questions
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Snoop65
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Defect

Post by Snoop65 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:46 pm

If you were to leave the Carver or Sunfire camp and use another amplifier what amp or amps would you consider using? My two choices would be Mcintosh or Krell
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Re: Defect

Post by jjptkd » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:06 am

I've been fighting the temptation of giving the Aragon 8008bb a shot.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_4 ... 008bb.html
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Re: Defect

Post by TORO3 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:12 am

Recently ran across a Conrad-Johnson MF2300 for $500 down in Tucson. Couldn't resist the deal so I pulled the trigger. Sounds pretty good, but I still like my Sunfire Cinema Seven.
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Re: Defect

Post by F1nut » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:13 am

My two choices would be Mcintosh or Krell
It would be hard to pick two more different "house" sounds.
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Re: Defect

Post by jjptkd » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:26 am

I wouldn't mind checking out Classe' either. Heard a 25 one time and always thought it would nice to play with one in my setup. I don't waste time drooling over $10k+ amplifiers or even $5k+ If I did, it would be one of Bob Carver's Cherry 180s. :-"
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Re: Defect

Post by jjptkd » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:07 pm

I started out with Carver seperates (hand me downs from relatives) and was happy for a long time but curiousity eventually got the best of me. I defected for about a year, trying different amplifiers I could buy for around the same price points, Yamaha, Adcom, Parasound, HKs, Acurus etc. and ended up coming around full circle back to Carver. Now, with the influence of this forum, Scarabeo namely, I'm running a full Sunfire setup and couldn't be happier. To be totally honest, I really liked the smooth sound of the Mosfet Adcoms, the 5500 & 5800 are two great amplifiers. The Adcoms run very hot though, which is what prompted me to sell my old 5800. The Acurus 200x3 I had was also a very nice sounding and powerful amplifier, probably my favorite non-Carver/Sunfire that I've owned, which is why I've always been so curious about the Aragon 8008bb.
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Re: Defect

Post by elgrau » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:14 pm

I like the "concept" of Carver/Sunfire "vintage" amps probably just as much as I do how they sound: i.e., I feel I'm getting the most amp for the money (American crafted, powerful, etc., and AFFORDABLE). Yes, I COULD spend $5-$10K on some "super amp" but I'm almost positive that I'd be "disappointed" in the amount of improvement in sound that I'd hear (if any; but probably some, just not "enough" to justify the 10x more $'s that I spent.... Just IMHO; I'm sure others disagree. And they MIGHT have more $'s than brains, too..again, just IMHO).



"If you want to look at your equipment or show it off to friends, you buy Krell, McIntosh, Levinson, etc. If you want to listen to your equipment and maximize your ROI, you buy something else."

Yeah, I somewhat agree BillD and had some stuff along those lines to post (people who spend that much don't really listen that much, etc., etc., just "Hey listen to the bass in MY system and wow it's real loud and I paid $100k for it...wow!" ), but figured that probably stereotyping too much and whatever floats your boat, etc. I'm sure not all folks who spend 5-6 figures on audio gear do it for those mentioned reasons. If money were no object, most audiophiles would almost certainly not end up with vintage Carver/Sunfire gear. Which is fine by me: who needs them bidding up the stuff WE want to outrageous amounts anyway? :)
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Re: Defect

Post by Snoop65 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:24 pm

I wouldn't go for a new Krell they are WAY too expensive. I would go with a S series like a 300s or 200s.I would alao consider the Krell FPB series. A Mcintosh I would buy a MC252 new. I agree Adcom has made some nice amps too. None of these will pull me away from my Lightstar though.
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Well, let's see.

Post by treitz3 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:37 pm

Hmmm, let's see. I have already defected even though I still own 4-5 pieces of Carver gear. I currently have two Anthem1 tube amps. What I have on my list of things to own are Bob's 180's, the Manley500 and beyond that? I'd have to hear them first but I wouldn't discount any Cary tube amps in the future. Even though the one I had running in my rig that didn't have the "magic" I was looking for, it damn sure had the magic in other rigs I have heard it on. Not a big fan of McIntosh here, any of the ones I have heard and you will NEVER see a Krell in my rig. I'm not a fan of sterile, I want musicality.

The possibilities are seemingly endless and the one thing I will always abide by? Tubes. Yeah, baby, tubes. They rock my world.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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Re: Well, let's see.

Post by OconeeOrange » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:56 pm

treitz3 wrote:HI'm not a fan of sterile, I want musicality.

The possibilities are seemingly endless and the one thing I will always abide by? Tubes. Yeah, baby, tubes. They rock my world.
Damn I have not owned a tube since solid state came in around the 1930's I guess. I believe it was after my stint in WWI.

I keep watching them, but damn the used ones are high !!!

Maybe someday --- [-o<

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No worries....

Post by treitz3 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:26 pm

Hey Bill, I know you have other priorities right now that don't concern audio. That said, whenever you are ready, just name a budget and there will be a plethora of options available to ya'. No worries, mate.

FYI, I purchased both of mine for only around 5-600 smackers each. If you have the right connections, tube ownership isn't really that expensive at all, contrary to popular belief. Add to that, if you don't like the sound? All you have to do is change out the tubes.....not the amplifier. [Or whatever piece of tubed gear you have running in your rig]

Tubes them self can run quite costly but again, if you have connections they aren't more than a fraction of what you see them listed for. That is, unless you are looking for a rare or highly desired tube or set of tubes. If you ever come to this point? You have such a connection. :wink:
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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Re: Well, let's see.

Post by Snoop65 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:46 pm

treitz3 wrote:Hmmm, let's see. I have already defected even though I still own 4-5 pieces of Carver gear. I currently have two Anthem1 tube amps. What I have on my list of things to own are Bob's 180's, the Manley500 and beyond that? I'd have to hear them first but I wouldn't discount any Cary tube amps in the future. Even though the one I had running in my rig that didn't have the "magic" I was looking for, it damn sure had the magic in other rigs I have heard it on. Not a big fan of McIntosh here, any of the ones I have heard and you will NEVER see a Krell in my rig. I'm not a fan of sterile, I want musicality.

The possibilities are seemingly endless and the one thing I will always abide by? Tubes. Yeah, baby, tubes. They rock my world.
Every time I have heard Krells they didn't sound sterile to me. Maybe because they were hooked up to tube preamps ususally Audio Research. I guess it's all about associated equipment sometimes. They were also always hooked up to some type of Wilsons. I think I will always have a tube preamp solid state amp set up. I like the best of both worlds. I have never heard them but I guess Silver Sevens or Audio Research 600's or other mega watt tube amps might give you everything.
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Re: Defect

Post by treitz3 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:59 pm

Snoop, when it comes to the Krells? They have earned a reputation with me on their own. I have heard many models on many a rig in many an environment. At first, I will admit, I was impressed at the detail and some of the other attributes they had to offer. Then, as I listened further and brought some of my own listening material in, things seemed to change. I would venture to say that the best way to describe what I heard without trying to brand bash was that I noticed that I never got around to tapping my toes in sheer enjoyment of the music. It was just reproduced music, hence, the word sterile.

While it was nice at first, it got old quickly. The next time you hear a Krell, take some of your own listening material in and see if you feel like tapping your toes to the music or whether you just listen. Your observations may be different than mine, as we all appreciate different sounds and we are all also on our own path along our audio journey. Whatever you come up with is good. I'm just saying that maybe you should take another listen before you spend that kind of dough on something that might end up becoming nothing more than just the flavor of the month.

For me, there is a huge difference between "sterile" and seemingly "clinical" and "musical".
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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Further reflected thoughts.....

Post by treitz3 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:19 pm

The one thing I don't get is that while I love tubes? The McIntosh amps don't really thrill me either. I have heard the lower lines all the way up to the.......[all I know is that it took four large men to carry them into the listening room, PER amp and that the price tag was over 100K for the McIntosh's tube amplifiers alone].........big boys and the sound was, shall we say....unimpressive. Especially for the amount of money spent on the room(s) and associated gear(s) they were hooked up too. This is up to and including a set of SC's that were $24,00.00 a pop. Yes, that's each.....not for the pair.

How they screw up the sound of tubes, no matter the speaker, room, gear or medium is beyond me.

Another company does this as well, with even more detrimental properties to the reproduction. That company would be MBL. Some of the most expensive crap I have ever heard in my life. Keep in mind, I have heard expensive gear and speakers that I do not hold the same observations about. I hold no bias toward any gear or manufacturer.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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Re: Defect

Post by nooshinjohn » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:51 pm

I will build my own...
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