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Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

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Snoop65

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Post Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:17 am

Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

Ok if you were to leave Carver/Sunfire nation and use another preamp what preamp would you consider using? My first choice would be Balance Audio Technology and my second choice, this is kind of going backwards, a Counterpoint SA-5000 but with the upgrades (if I like the upgrades). What ever preamp it is it would have to be a tube preamp.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!
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BillD

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Post Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:53 am

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

I'd probably build one from a kit. Full tube complement from rectification up. No hybrid.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
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skip

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Post Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:16 am

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

this one.
http://show.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/st.pl? ... tAAAAjoule
I see them on Audiogon on occasion for much less. Ask F1nut about his. Best pre I've heard. I think F1 had the earlier model, but I'm not sure.
Sasquatch
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How long a minute is, depends on what side of the bathroom door you're on.
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TNRabbit

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Post Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:32 am

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

I'd get one of those Stu Hegeman CITATION preamps that has been rebuilt by Bob~
TNRabbit
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OconeeOrange

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Post Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:23 pm

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

I cannot possibly tell you why, but I have wanted a Parasound - Classic 2100 for a long time.
I have had it in my ebay search for over a year, but so far, no one is giving one away.
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F1nut

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Post Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:16 am

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

Thanks Skip, glad you liked it. The Joule all tube pre amps consistently show up in the top 5 best lists.

I upgraded a few things since you heard it last, sounds even better now, IMO.
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In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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skip

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Post Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:16 am

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

F1nut wrote:Thanks Skip, glad you liked it. The Joule all tube pre amps consistently show up in the top 5 best lists.

I upgraded a few things since you heard it last, sounds even better now, IMO.


Don't know how a rig could sound any better than the one you brought to the Fest a few years ago. What pre are you using now? The special edition Joule?
Sasquatch
TnRabbit's Assistant Official OCCD Enabler.

How long a minute is, depends on what side of the bathroom door you're on.
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F1nut

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Post Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:06 pm

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

It's the same pre amp, I just did a few upgrades to it. As for the rest of that same rig, I'm using the Treasure 6CA7-Z's now verses the Ei 6CA7's that were in it at CF. That alone was a marked improvement.

The special edition Joule?


Maybe one day, we'll see.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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skip

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Post Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:47 pm

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

If I ever hit the big time I'll have a Joule pre and monoblocks. I only live 50 miles from where they are made. F1, have you ever heard a set of the Joule blocks? If so, how do they compair to the Manley's?
Sasquatch
TnRabbit's Assistant Official OCCD Enabler.

How long a minute is, depends on what side of the bathroom door you're on.
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F1nut

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Post Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:09 pm

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

No, never had the pleasure. As they are OTL amps, very careful speaker matching is needed. Most seem to prefer the Merlin's with the Joule amps. Neither you or I could drive our speakers with them.

Skip, you should call them and go over for a demo in their showroom. Hell, I would if I was only 50 miles away.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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icravcarver

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Post Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:12 pm

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

Jesse,

There is a small dealer here in CNY that carries the Joule line. It just so happens that he also sells Merlin speakers. Is this a match the dealers are also aware of? I have seen Joule on his website, and it looks like quality stuff, but unfortunately it is out of my league, so I have not had a reason to try and audition any of it. That is until my wife gets hired full time!!! Then, watch out!!

Neil.
OCCD claims another victim!!

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F1nut

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Post Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

Neil, yes they are quite aware.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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treitz3

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Post Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:41 am

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

Snoop, I have hit the end of the road for me concerning pre-amps. What I have is a Gary Dodd built Dodd MLP. I call it the "Fred Flinstone" pre and my wife and some others call it the "Dodo", not realizing that it's a Dodd. I ran across this pre at an audio gathering down in the humid swamps of Georgia a couple of years back. When I first lay eyes on her, I thought to myself, "what a Fred Flinstone looking piece of gear". I was kinda turned off by the looks as I had never seen a wood faced front on any gear up to that date.

Then I heard it.

It wasn't hooked up to the best of gear. Run of the mill NAD amp, my Rega Apollo CDP for one source and the Denon 2910 Universal for the other. The speakers were the Tyler Acoustics Taylos speakers that many have had the chance to audition at two separate Carverfest's. I ended up getting the Tyler's as well after this audition, but that's another story.

What I heard was nothing short of incredible to my ears. It wasn't a full range system, it definitely wasn't the best of systems but the sound imaging that came out of that rig was among the best that I had heard my entire life. There were many a rig there at that event and I spent multiple hours at this one, just absorbing how well the sound was thrown out, how the attack was quick and powerful and most of all, how good and precise the imaging was.

The imaging is what stopped me in my tracks. When we put in BB King's LIVE at the Regal, you could actually see him walk across the stage. You could see him when he didn't move but just tilted his head from one side of the microphone to the other. The placement of everything was pin-point. All of this was apparent with your eyes closed or open. You didn't need to imagine.

The more we listened to that rig and the more we changed genre's of music, the more I came to respect what was sitting in front of me. I knew that one day I would own both the speakers and that Fred Flinstone looking pre.

Well, I sold the Rega and got me a Jolida JD100 which was a huge benefit to my rig, acquired the Tyler's and then the Dodd [to my sheer delight] came up on the used market. I owe Mr. George Daniels a BIG one for offering it to me. Thanks, George!!! I guess I'd better thank his wife too, as she wasn't the happiest when George sent me the Dodd. She really liked it too.

So, anyway.....I get my new rig up and running and even though I had been through at least 20 or more receivers, a Denon integrated and had recently swapped out at least 8 more pre's on top of the previous ones, I was floored for the first time. Usually, the sound got worse. Sometimes slightly better. Nothing that made you jump up and down and nothing that would even make you want to comment one way or the other. Not really that much of a sonic change one way or another.

As soon as the Dodd was introduced? Holy crap, praise Jesus, there IS a God! Man, the whole rig opened up. I heard frequencies I had never heard before, the realism was off the charts, rolloff was natural and chimes......well, they sounded like chimes. Like they were in your living room. I had not experienced that before. Imaging was pin-point and not sloppy or wide. What I mean by that is imagine a guitar player. He's plucking and he's sliding. There are two distinct areas of where the sound is generated. With this pre, I could easily distinguish where the guitarist was strumming in relation to where he was sliding. This could be established for the first time in my rig, even if there were 3 guitarists up on stage [Think "Friday Night in San Fransisco"].

I could go on and on about what this pre made me discover with all aspects of the music reproduction along my audio journey. Needless to say, she's a keeper. This is the one piece of gear that I feel absolutely no need to upgrade. I have had a lot of gear come and go over the years and this is the only one out of all of 'em that I can honestly say ain't goin' anywhere.

The Dodd MLP is the one shown on the lower right side of the table. The one with the wood faceplate and knobs. This photo was taken the very first time I ever heard it and I knew as soon as I put my ears on it that one day I would own it. I was right, I own the very one pictured. The power supply chassis is sitting down on the floor.
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That said, if there was a house fire or someone actually got lucky enough to make it past the neighbors, security system and the dog and I didn't have the Dodd anymore, here are some choices that would be on the consideration block...

Musical Fidelity and Joule are two that I would consider. I have only heard 4 of them in my life and I have no idea about the models, so no pic's will be provided. If you have any questions about them, feel free to ask as we have an owner or two on this forum. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about them. One of the Musical Fidelity pre's I heard was in one of the top 5 stereo systems I have had the pleasure of listening too, if that tells you anything.

One of the Integrated Manley's such as the Manley 100/100
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Or the Manley Direct Input Stereo 100/100
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Or one I have heard and thoroughly enjoyed, the Manley Stingray. What a beautiful integrated! It looks better in person and sounds are fluid and enjoyable. Nice spectrum of sound and very clean. In fact, I came real close to getting the exact one I heard [twice] but could not afford it at the times it became available. DOH!
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Convergent Audio Technology Renaissance which holds high reviews and is considered by some to be the best out there. I'd have to hear it first though, as I do not rely on reviews. Ever.
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Cary Audio Design SLP 05 seen below which has a 2 chassis design.....most likely the one I would go with out of all the other Carver defects listed. The Dodd I have is a two chassis design with the audio circuitry housed in one chassis and the power supply housed up to 3 feet away. I'm a firm believer in using this type of configuration for clean sound out of the pre. Though I have heard some pretty stellar pre's in a 1 chassis design, there's just something that sounds different [can't really describe it] with the 2 chassis design.
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In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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Snoop65

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Post Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:50 pm

Re: Defect (THE PREAMP EDITION)

Nice gear! I haven't heard a CAT in years but I was impressed when I did. I'm familiar with Manley but haven't any of the products you listed. I also know about Cary but haven't heard any of their products neither. I have to get back into going to show rooms and listening to equipment. I'm just real content with my system (except for my turntable and I could upgrade my speaker cables) so I haven't been running around checking stuff out like is use to. Last system I listened to was a Sound Smith system(amp,preamp,cartridge and speakers) with a VPI HRX turntable late november.
CARVER LIGHTSTAR REFERENCE+SUNFIRE CLASSIC TUBE PREAMPLIFIER+JBL XPL200+MUSIC HALL MMF-9.1+GRADO REFERENCE MASTER 1+CARVER SD/A 390t=WOW!!!!!!

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