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300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

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TNRabbit

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

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Post Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:52 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

Nah, it's just BillD getting cranky in his old age~




:lol:
TNRabbit
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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jjptkd

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SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Post Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:58 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

The only part of this I don't understand is the "pay me $50 if you want my input." I thought that was kind of the point to these forums was to share our experiences with others. ](*,) ](*,)
Sunfire TGP-III
Sunfire 600x2
PS Audio DL-III DAC
Klipsch "mini" Chorus II's
Klipsch RSW 15
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elgrau

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Post Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:23 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

Naw, BillD; not about any of those things. Nor do I buy your "metaphorically" copout. Just a another garden variety ad-hominum attack..... I'm just trying to discuss a philosphical issue that I think OO's kitty picture summed up quite well.....nothing more than that. But I DO tire of being villiphied everytime I try to have such a discussion..... Nothing personnel; I respect Kingmans's POV on the subject; he seems to respect mine. Where do you come into the picture anyway?

Basically my difference stems from this observation (which of course no one responded to nor gave an answer to....too busy mud slinging :lol: ):

"It's called "High FIDELITY" and not "High Whatever Sounds Best to You" for a reason Kingman. High Fidelity is that "threading of the reality needle" that we all (amp/speaker/system designer's AND listeners) strive for and is what guides us all to a better system. Other wise what would have been the point of the Carver challenge, e.g.? Bob would have just put some pot adjustments in the back of his amps and instructed the end user to just "tweak it until it is Whatever Sounds Best to You"....


But really, never mind. Not worth it. I just have a different POV from Kingman on this....that not allowed? As to the exchange with Tom, I was just trying to point how this philosophy tends to make others opinions moot (and therefore of no value) when ALL you consider is "how it sounds to me". Also stated that I disagree with that POV and WAS interested in his view on the subject of the thread (loosely, Sunfire vs Carver). And I don't even mind his request to help (monetarily) support the fest/site to hear his answer! No absolutes (in amp/system design)....everything is relative....I just don't prescribe to that view. I believe in absolutes. That allowed? Just saying. After all, this IS an audio FORUM: that implies public discourse/discussion on audio related stuff. This is the real world BillD (not Mr. Rodger's Neighborhood!); there will be disagreements and differences of opinions (NEVER thought I'd have to point that fact out re AUDIO stuff! :lol: :lol: ). Again, Peace out. Don't want to discuss, that's fine to. And note that when Gary was critical of my speaker's, I did not call him names nor villify him: I simply posted some stuff/facts from the EPI brochure to support my position....not attack HIM. That's how civilized people hold a discussion, remember? :lol:
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
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treitz3

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"Julian"
"Julian"

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Post Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:53 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

jjptkd wrote:The only part of this I don't understand is the "pay me $50 if you want my input." I thought that was kind of the point to these forums was to share our experiences with others. ](*,) ](*,)
That part was a joke, which I will express my observations on later. As far as the $100.00? Touche. Good response. :wink:

Ed..........I'd swear that you are becoming a troll. This may not be the case but, damn. ](*,)
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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Mr. M-500t

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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:00 pm

Post Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:01 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

OconeeOrange wrote:I would say this thread proves we are all alike here.
We all are confident in our (hopefully) ever changing opinions.
We all enjoy defending our opinion and attacking another's opinion.
This thread proves that.

Attacking the person is not cool. =;
(yea, I know I do it, but I am doing better)


NOT !
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Mr. M-500t

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 6211

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:00 pm

Post Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:03 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

kingman wrote:HOLY SHIT!!! how did I know that my thoughts would equate into this...folks...it's not about each others opinions. Everyone on here has a system they are proud of. All I mean is that YOU are the audio judge! Be proud of the sound system you have ....and take advice from people that have more experience...to a point. In the end..you have to be happy with what YOU hear...not what someone tells you THEY hear...jezzz!!! Can't we all be happy????? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Your no fun Wayne ! :-"
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elgrau

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Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 9:33 pm

Post Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:05 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

"Ed..........I'd swear that you are becoming a troll. "

On my OWN thread even! :rolleyes: :-k :lol: And like BillD's copout, I'm not buying yours either re the $50 fee thing....sorry!
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
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Mr. M-500t

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 6211

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:00 pm

Post Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:08 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

Hang in there Ed, you don't have to take shit from anybody around here. I enjoy your post as with everyone else cept OO. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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mbskeam

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Post Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:30 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

It's called "High FIDELITY" and not "High Whatever Sounds Best to You" for a reason Kingman. High Fidelity is that "threading of the reality needle" that we all (amp/speaker/system designer's AND listeners) strive for and is what guides us all to a better system. Other wise what would have been the point of the Carver challenge, e.g.? Bob would have just put some pot adjustments in the back of his amps and instructed the end user to just "tweak it until it is Whatever Sounds Best to You"....


I have been sitting here the past few days reading this post.
I'm a bit confused.....

"High FIDELITY", I think we all can agree that most if not of our systems kick ass, when you compare them to the average crap that most people have.....

if on my system I like the way it sounds to me, gives me hrs of pleasure, then for me its good.
but the same system may sound like ASS to others, why.......who the hell knows.....
does that make me right or them wrong?.....
no..

as to whether sunfire sounds better than carver?
I can only say that I only have carver in my system, have I heard sunfire, ....
yes,.....
did it sound good,......yes (Eddies system)
I would need to really have a component hooked up to ALL my stuff to know if would sound good....
I'll use the PL amp as a reference, these had a problem of flaming on....
then carver tfm amps. on mine all three have failed at some point, did they flame, no.....
the parts just failed....
then the sunfire..... I have not heard/read about to many of the amps even going dead or dying.
the reason to me is this....
as all 3 brands have the same designer, and as time goes on he got better at knowing what works and will last.....
does this mean that the sunfire will sound better than a PL?.....
I kinda think it would, that is kinda the way of things as time goes on, ya try and make things better,(think sound) not worse....
it 's that way with pkg machines, cars, boats ,planes and amps.....etc
but does the carver sound better to you than a sunfire with ALL your stuff in line, yes to you.
I can understand this, but would it sound better with my stuff, who the hell knows....

as to the pot adj., if you think tubes you can do this very thing, swap out to a different tube, this can change the sound.....
better, worse?.......


who's to say......... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mbskeam


#1 BLACK BEAUTY's made by the man, the myth, the legend Bob Carver
CARVER: TFM-75, TFM-45(3), SD/A-490T
SUNFIRE: Tube pre
2 sets of ALS'3, set of SILVERS, set of PLATS
AUDIOCONTROL: phase coupled activator
KENWOOD: BASIC M2a (2)

“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes

The only thing I'll feel......will be the RECOIL
Necronomicon Ex-Mortis....... Klaatu Barada Nikkto
"We should seek the greatest value of our action"
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OconeeOrange

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Post Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:49 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

I play my outdoor system a lot, so I am used to the sound.
The amp pulling it was a Carver.
A few months ago I put in a much more expensive Sunfire.
That was the only change.

Was the sound different? Yes.
Was the sound better? Yes.
Was that because I just could not get the fact out of my mind I had more money in it all ?
Was the main difference just in my head and my heart?

Play the video of BOB on the new main page.
Bob says the same about wire.
I think he agrees a difference can exist whether real or perceived.
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elgrau

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Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 9:33 pm

Post Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:09 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

"If your over 50 the hell with it you can't hear crap any way and this whole post is worthless~!!!!!
Ray (50)plus"

Does not have to be that way, Ray. About five years ago it was pretty much the case for me (57 at the time) and I tested my hearing and could not hear much above about 13k Hz. Then, I started taking this stuff (from www.healthline.cc) called Nerve Complex (and also helps to make sure you get the full spectrum of mins as well as "ear bones" are among the 1st to thin and deteriate from lack of mins or the ability to absorb mins due to age related lack of HCL/digestives) that I also gave my mom for her "going blind due to old age" (90+). This stuff claims to be able to re-grow dead or dying nerve tissue. She reported to me that the "large dark spot" in front of her vision had drastically shrunk after I put her on this stuff and that she could again actually make out shapes of people on the TV again.... I re-tested my hearing after being on the stuff for a year or so and I am now able to hear very well right up to 18k Hz! This "new found" hearing boost has done more for my "musical system" than anything else I've done for it in a long time (ever maybe!). And I now also don't walk around saying "what did you say?" anymore neither...so I KNOW this stuff works at least for me and my then living mother. Dr. Marshall's (biochemist with 35 years of clinical nutrition experience who runs this company) has a great saying: "God ALWAYS provides a rescue".....you just need to do some effort sometimes (my add..). - Ed
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
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jannypan

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Post Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:45 pm

Re: 300x2 vs TFM-42....continued: System Synergy??

.In which case ALL amps on the planet would be equals....clearly not the case!
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