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How do you find synergy....

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treitz3

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"Julian"
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Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:32 pm

Bring it, baby!!!

OconeeOrange wrote:I could bring some speakers or etc to challenge Carver gear, but that is a downer and a looser. I don't think you use as much Carver now as you once did. It would be fun to test my Def Tec or Don's speakers against the Carver speakers, but this is not the place for it.
Naw man, this IS the place to do just that. Not everybody who comes has an exclusive Carver system. In fact an all Bob Carver based system has been relatively rare at Carverfest. Yeah, I don't run Carver in my rig anymore but I still have many pieces of Carver gear here and there for use at a later date when I have a bigger house and when my son grows up.

This year, one of my goals is to build an ALL Carver gear system at Carverfest. Of course he didn't make IC's and things of that nature but I guess I'd like to have the most complete all Carver system set up at this year's event. Tubed or SS? I do not care, though I would prefer tubed.

Back to the point. We are not at Carverfest to be a bunch of Carver geeks and shun those who do not have all Carver gear. We all enjoy hearing different things and through the years, we have all heard a plethora of things that we had never experienced before. This helps with the "finding" of the synergy thing we are talking about. So that said, bring it. Bring what you want and set up your own rig if you want.

Hell, Bob even enjoys hearing other manufacturers equipment. It's as much a treat for him as it is us.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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BillD

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:36 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

I wasn't talking about the quality of the cable, just it's length, within reason. There could be more harm in a coil of cable behind your speaker (because the other one is farther away, and you wanted the cable lengths equal) than having one shorter than the other. Moreover, the question wasn't anything about cable quality, it was about sound arrival.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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treitz3

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"Julian"
"Julian"

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Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:38 pm

Re: Hehe....we'll be glad to have you attend.

OconeeOrange wrote:So now the prejudice from a New Englander mired in the South shows its ugly head --
Hey now.....from one redneck to another? I was born 12 miles south of the Mason-Dixon line in Springfield, Va. [Yeah, I know, depending on what time during the war you are talking about :rolleyes: ] I'm a Southerner and one damned fine redneck, thank you.

OconeeOrange wrote:I bow to your wisdom Tom.
Hell, I wouldn't.

OconeeOrange wrote:I don't see it, but most here might.
I doubt that. You are giving me too much credit.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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OconeeOrange

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:40 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

BillD wrote:I wasn't talking about the quality of the cable, just it's length, within reason. There could be more harm in a coil of cable behind your speaker (because the other one is farther away, and you wanted the cable lengths equal) than having one shorter than the other. Moreover, the question wasn't anything about cable quality, it was about sound arrival.


Damn that sounds like you are defending something.

You are a god here and Ed has told me - "hands off'.

So all I can say is thanks -- :lol:
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BillD

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:52 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

I was only defending your question, not to be led off on a tangent about the quality of ICs.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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OconeeOrange

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:00 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

BillD wrote:I was only defending your question, not to be led off on a tangent about the quality of ICs.



No need to expose your beliefs on those -

(did my best Ed)
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OconeeOrange

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:07 pm

Re: Hehe....we'll be glad to have you attend.

treitz3 wrote:Shut up Redneck. :D



Good deal TOM.

I got your back - maybe.

Many move to the South and claim to embrace it (cause they are stuck here) :lol:

Few learn the history, just bring with them the lies and prejudice from where they grew up.

Is that you?
The test is simple and below --
Comment please -

TOM.jpg
TOM.jpg (193.04 KiB) Viewed 662 times
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Martin1970

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:23 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

BillD wrote:I was only defending your question, not to be led off on a tangent about the quality of ICs.


Hope I wasn't the one who led us astray.
I've been looking for an excuse to show off my
?ghetto-ass? cables for a while now.

I knew what you meant. And I also agree with you.
Carver: ALS plat upgrades, TX-11a, C-9, C-1
Sunfire: Cinema Grand Sig 400 Seven x2
Rane: RPM88 26Z x3
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elgrau

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

"1 IC [for example] can either make or break my (your) system"

So true: I related previously how "inferior" (or "non-synergistic" to stay "on topic" and keep the "thread police" away - :lol: ) 8M IC's had led me to believe that my "sphere's" were "bass heavy" when in reality these cheap IC's were just "starving" out the high's (probably due a lot to the required 8M length of the "feed" from my family room preamp to my living room amp). Spent some relatively small bucks on a set of 8M AudioQuest "Black Mamba'a" ("on sale" due to the length?) and this fixed the problem very nicely. Which led to upgrading this system to 300x2 Sunfire (which w/o the IC "fix" I may never have "bothered" to do this.).

Also, (re pic of the "boat cable"): kiss of death stamped right on them: PVC (insulation). This the consensus worse thing to use for "wires" insulation....
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
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OconeeOrange

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:24 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

elgrau wrote:. Spent some relatively small bucks on a set of 8M AudioQuest "Black Mamba'a" ("on sale" due to the length?) and this fixed the problem very nicely. .


What problem did the "mambas" clear up ?

Did they replace good solid cables ?

Those are old hat now and cheap. Does that fact effect your opinion of them ??
The experts have moved on as they discovered this snake oil market.
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Martin1970

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:32 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

elgrau wrote:Also, (re pic of the "boat cable"): kiss of death stamped right on them: PVC (insulation). This the consensus worse thing to use for "wires" insulation....


There's this voice inside my head screaming 'don't do it.'
However, the curiosity has got the better of me.

What's the issue with the pvc insulation?

You know what?
Maybe we ought to do a different thread or pm or something.
Perhaps just post a link?
I Googled but didn't find anything right away.

This might be moving slightly outside of the range of HRDROKN's original question.
Carver: ALS plat upgrades, TX-11a, C-9, C-1
Sunfire: Cinema Grand Sig 400 Seven x2
Rane: RPM88 26Z x3
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elgrau

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

OO: They "fixed" the fact that the "cheap" 8 meter IC's were attenuating the preamp signal's high frequency content and thus making the "end product" music from the speaks sound "bass heavy" (due to the lack of highs). I won't even bother to name these "cheap" IC's (to protect the guilty?).
Nope, not at all. My ears really don't give a shit about anyone else's opinion of Audioquest... I only know that they are "getting the job done" whereas the other brand was NOT. I'd classify the "other brand" as "cheap IC's that sound cheap".

Martin: Will do (asap; time permitting).
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
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OconeeOrange

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:41 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

elgrau wrote:OO: They "fixed" the fact that the "cheap" 8 meter IC's were attenuating the preamp signal's high frequency content .


I am OK with that.

You of course see the adds for wires that make those look silly and low tech.

You are my guide here.
Are these "mambas" the last word or do I need upgrade beyond that and often?
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Don

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

OconeeOrange wrote:
I could bring some speakers or etc to challenge Carver gear, but that is a downer and a looser. I don't think you use as much Carver now as you once did. It would be fun to test my Def Tec or Don's speakers against the Carver speakers, but this is not the place for it.

Double O,

Don't want to over rate what I am bringing. :rolleyes: For a 40 year old system that a poor college kid struggled to afford, it still sounds good. =D> Just good. I don't want to imply it competes with any of the ALS's. IMHO, it does compete with bookshelf speakers (which the Dynaco A-25 is) in the under $1k range today, which I find both surprising and interesting. I realize inflation has taken it's toll, but a 40 year old design that I paid $120 a pair and still makes pretty good music brings a smile to this old man's face. :D However, it is no red herring!

Having said that, in my brief audition of the DT mythos, I believe they also will surprise a few ears. 8)
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.
— Thomas Paine


"Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of value" Albert Einstein

"Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them". Charlie Reese

"The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett


"Kindness is a language that the Deaf can hear and the Blind can see." Mark Twain

RIP Bill D.
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OconeeOrange

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Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:24 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

Don wrote:OconeeOrange wrote:
I could bring some speakers or etc to challenge Carver gear, but that is a downer and a looser. I don't think you use as much Carver now as you once did. It would be fun to test my Def Tec or Don's speakers against the Carver speakers, but this is not the place for it.

Double O,

Don't want to over rate what I am bringing. :rolleyes: For a 40 year old system that a poor college kid struggled to afford, it still sounds good. =D> Just good. I don't want to imply it competes with any of the ALS's. IMHO, it does compete with bookshelf speakers (which the Dynaco A-25 is) in the under $1k range today, which I find both surprising and interesting. I realize inflation has taken it's toll, but a 40 year old design that I paid $120 a pair and still makes pretty good music brings a smile to this old man's face. :D However, it is no red herring!

Having said that, in my brief audition of the DT mythos, I believe they also will surprise a few ears. 8)


To haul mine up the Mt takes space we need for chicken, and this is CarverFest.
To haul yours, a fork lift would be needed.

I see a lot of fun ahead --- \:D/ \:D/
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