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How do you find synergy....

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Don

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(pair of) SILVER-7t's

Posts: 2105

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:46 am

Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:34 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

Double O,

I hear ya. Would love to take the Whisper Xd's also. But, they are not moving from the 2nd story HTR. Dynaco bookshelfs and Marantz 2270 is the best I can do, providing Terri leaves me the space in the car trunk. [-o<

Sorry we hijacked this thread!
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.
— Thomas Paine


"Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of value" Albert Einstein

"Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them". Charlie Reese

"The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett


"Kindness is a language that the Deaf can hear and the Blind can see." Mark Twain

RIP Bill D.
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kingman

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 5635

Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:10 pm

Location: Upstate South Carolina

Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:28 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

Found it tonight...right here listening to the AL III's...9 beers and all is right with the world. I can't imagine it sounding much better..... 8)
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
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Don

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7t's

Posts: 2105

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:46 am

Post Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:30 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

We were wondering where you were when all the trash talkin about Clemson was taking place! :lol:
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.
— Thomas Paine


"Try not to become a man of success, but rather a man of value" Albert Einstein

"Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them". Charlie Reese

"The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." Brad Shurett


"Kindness is a language that the Deaf can hear and the Blind can see." Mark Twain

RIP Bill D.
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HRDROKN

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TFM-45

Posts: 533

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:04 pm

Location: Northern California

Post Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:04 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

Do you get to a point that the system becomes more revealing, in that the source material can make or break the sound?

:-k
HRDROKN
MC-7P tube preanp, BBE2002R, Marchand XM44, TFM-35x .002, TFM-35x, M1.0t MKII .002, M500t, Silver 7t's, SDA-360 and Klipsch KLF-30's w/crites crossovers...
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elgrau

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 2888

Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 9:33 pm

Post Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:11 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

Most assuredly....the quality of your "source" can easily become your system's "weakest link". The rest (of your system) can only amplify and then the speakers can only "broadcast" what it's given....GIGO! "Purely" amplified garbage is still garbage...and the purer and the higher the fidelity of the amplification and speakers, the less your system will act to "filter out" this garbage (which of course you don't want...you naturally want as pure a source as possible and then as high of a fidelity amplification of this pure source as possible.....duh/obviously...as we all of course know here!).
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
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treitz3

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"Julian"
"Julian"

Posts: 7746

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm

Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:26 pm

Absof'nlutely!

HRDROKN wrote:Do you get to a point that the system becomes more revealing, in that the source material can make or break the sound?
Absolutely, without a doubt and unequivocally. In other words, you have arrived.

Believe it or not, there is more....but enjoy what you have now....... :-#
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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Toy Maker

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Puppet Master

Posts: 6447

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:26 am

Post Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:53 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

"How do you find synergy?"...


You guys are fucking retarded.......
On Google Maps of course !!!!
God you guys are dumb... ](*,)

photo.PNG
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it... because nobody else will.

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
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treitz3

User avatar

"Julian"
"Julian"

Posts: 7746

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm

Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:02 pm

Synergy in James' world..

Bitch, get me fresh cooked pizza with double sauce and double cheese.

OK, dear.

:D
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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Mr. M-500t

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 6211

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:00 pm

Post Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:27 am

Re: How do you find synergy....

Toy Maker wrote:
"How do you find synergy?"...


You guys are fucking retarded.......
On Google Maps of course !!!!
God you guys are dumb... ](*,)

photo.PNG

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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ekog

User avatar

TFM-6cb

Posts: 254

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:50 am

Location: Northern Virginia

Post Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:22 am

Re: How do you find synergy....

HRDROKN wrote:without dumping a boat load of cash? So do some get lucky and others just keep rotating gear..... :lol:

:-s


Personally I’ve never been lucky with few exceptions my core stereo gear being one of the few but I had to do a lot of research, studying, and listening and then a lot of scrimping and saving before I bought them. Unlike TMRabbit I didn’t start with the room as I couldn’t change that instead I started with the speakers I looked for speakers that I thought sounded good naturally and produced a stereo image and that could fit in the space I had (ok that part was the room but not what TNRabbit was talking about) Once I was sure I found the speakers I moved on to the Amplifier, at the time I was looking I wasn’t sure if I wanted a receiver or Amp and Pre-Amp I selected the latter as I wanted to have more power that the receivers of the time just didn’t offer. I focused in on the carvers right away as everything else in the store was basically runoff the mill and I wanted better I had the choice between the M500t or the 1.0t I ended up getting the M500t as I thought it fit the power requirements of the speakers better and I thought it sounded better then the 1.0t (admittedly it could have just been the cool meters on the front) at that point I felt I had the core of my system I’ve added and exchanged my sources over the years some failed but mainly they got destroyed in moves or technology just improved to the point I need to move on. This year was the first time I really had any equipment failures in my Core system but its 25 years old and I’ll get it fixed hopefully to use for another 25 years.
Main System Setup:
Pre: Carver C2 | Amp: Carver M-500t|Equilizer: Sansui SE99|Speakers: Polk SDA2’s
Source: Tuner: Carver TX-2| Phono: Technics SL-1210 MkII with a Ortofon VMS 20E Mk II| DirecTV DVR | Pioneer HLD-X9 Laserdisc player | Samsung DVD/VHS player

Second System Setup:
Receiver: Yamaha RXV867| Fronts: Klipsch F-30's |Sub: Klipsch SW-112
Source: Radio |Internet/Network | Sony CDP-70 CD player
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BillD

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

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Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:00 am

Re: How do you find synergy....

I just fix it when it breaks. When I do, I use the most modern components I can find as substitutes for what failed. Modern foundries produce much better discretes and integrateds than they did in the 1980-90 period. If you go through and do a full refurb, you end up with a better component than when it was new.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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elgrau

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 2888

Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 9:33 pm

Post Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:39 am

Re: How do you find synergy....

Good question (how DO you find synergy?). Recently I've been studying the electrical equivalent circut model of the COMPLETE amp signal/driver/enclosure/accoustic wave electro-mechanical system (presented in "An Electroacoustic Analysis of Transmission Line Loudspeakers" PHD dissertation by R. A. Robinson, Jr. - link posted to "over there" by RichP) and was "dreaming" about how to adapt those equations to a software package that would in essence allow one to analytically produce frequency response curves from different "tweaks" of a basic system (or in my case also use it to determine "optimal" speaker enclosure volumns, driver sizes, and internal speaker damping material packing densities - all of which effect overall system response). This paper also presents experimental ways to determine the key mechanical/electrical properties of the LF drivers used in your system. My thoughts were that one could also obtain (either thru measurement or from company provided spec sheets) the R/C/L parameters of different "high end" speaker wire brands (vs frequency) and it would be a very easy matter to add these circut element parameters vs freq to the overall circut model of one's entire system (starting with an "ideal" input signal vs frequency and then generating the sound pressure level (SPL) vs frequency plot of the loudspeaker and "adjusting" the speaker wires and - if building/designing speakers - also adjusting enclosure volumn, driver size, packing densities, etc. until one obtains the flatest LF frequency response of this overall system). The resulting complex circut model is just solved (in this case for the SPL at the speaker exit plane) by existing "circut solver" software packages with the desired mechanical system quantities analogously represented in the complex circut model as either voltages or currents. Granted, models can't model everything, but they are very good at tracking the DIFFERENCES in system response for each trial configuration and thus determining the "optimal" set of speaker wire "brand" and/or the optimal speaker design. Of course everything "upstream" of this (the source, the IC's, the preamp, the amp) is still "variable" and pretty much a matter of personal preferences, but I believe everything "downstream" of this (i.e., the speaker wires and speakers themselves) should be as "flat" and nuetral as possible with the lowest frequency response possible before the ~3 db drop off of the SPL..... All of this can be optimized based on the aforementioned "design parameters" (including the different R/C/L parameters vs frequency of the various "high end" speaker wires available for one to choose from).
Family room: 400 disk changer with PS Audio Digital Link III DAC; Technics SL-1100A TT. QED Quenx1 IC's from DAC & TT to Adcom GTP-602 preamp/Tuner. AudioQuest King Cobra IC's from preamp to M1.0t mk-II opt2. QED Silver Spirals 4M wires to EPI 1000’s.
Living room: AudioQuest Black Mamba 8M IC's from family room preamp to Barcus-Berry 2002R Sonic Maximizer to GlowPower Zyxt IC's to Sunfire 300x2 to Nordost 6M bi-source wires to AOS 28" MDF spherical speakers using six 8" woofers and eight 1" dome tweeters symm. arranged around the surface.
SS system: CX-995V DVD to AV-705x 5 channel amp (center/rears) & M1.0t mk-II opt2(fronts).
Garage: TLM-3600 CDP to MXR150 Receiver (pre) to TFM-42 to EPI 400 speakers.
<<

HRDROKN

User avatar

TFM-45

Posts: 533

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:04 pm

Location: Northern California

Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:09 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

elgrau wrote:Good question (how DO you find synergy?). Recently I've been studying the electrical equivalent circut model of the COMPLETE amp signal/driver/enclosure/accoustic wave electro-mechanical system (presented in "An Electroacoustic Analysis of Transmission Line Loudspeakers" PHD dissertation by R. A. Robinson, Jr. - link posted to "over there" by RichP) and was "dreaming" about how to adapt those equations to a software package that would in essence allow one to analytically produce frequency response curves from different "tweaks" of a basic system (or in my case also use it to determine "optimal" speaker enclosure volumns, driver sizes, and internal speaker damping material packing densities - all of which effect overall system response). This paper also presents experimental ways to determine the key mechanical/electrical properties of the LF drivers used in your system. My thoughts were that one could also obtain (either thru measurement or from company provided spec sheets) the R/C/L parameters of different "high end" speaker wire brands (vs frequency) and it would be a very easy matter to add these circut element parameters vs freq to the overall circut model of one's entire system (starting with an "ideal" input signal vs frequency and then generating the sound pressure level (SPL) vs frequency plot of the loudspeaker and "adjusting" the speaker wires and - if building/designing speakers - also adjusting enclosure volumn, driver size, packing densities, etc. until one obtains the flatest LF frequency response of this overall system). The resulting complex circut model is just solved (in this case for the SPL at the speaker exit plane) by existing "circut solver" software packages with the desired mechanical system quantities analogously represented in the complex circut model as either voltages or currents. Granted, models can't model everything, but they are very good at tracking the DIFFERENCES in system response for each trial configuration and thus determining the "optimal" set of speaker wire "brand" and/or the optimal speaker design. Of course everything "upstream" of this (the source, the IC's, the preamp, the amp) is still "variable" and pretty much a matter of personal preferences, but I believe everything "downstream" of this (i.e., the speaker wires and speakers themselves) should be as "flat" and nuetral as possible with the lowest frequency response possible before the ~3 db drop off of the SPL..... All of this can be optimized based on the aforementioned "design parameters" (including the different R/C/L parameters vs frequency of the various "high end" speaker wires available for one to choose from).


In the famous words of Double O... you need to find youself a hobby!

:lol:
HRDROKN
MC-7P tube preanp, BBE2002R, Marchand XM44, TFM-35x .002, TFM-35x, M1.0t MKII .002, M500t, Silver 7t's, SDA-360 and Klipsch KLF-30's w/crites crossovers...
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angelod307

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 2693

Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:56 pm

Location: manning, sc

Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:50 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

OconeeOrange wrote:
Martin1970 wrote: (Or would that be redneck?)


I don't get that at all --

RedNeck is a good thing.



yes, survival of the fitest. agreed. next up, 200mph duct tape. redneck or brilliant minute body work.
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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HRDROKN

User avatar

TFM-45

Posts: 533

Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:04 pm

Location: Northern California

Post Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:17 pm

Re: How do you find synergy....

angelod307 wrote:yes, survival of the fitest. agreed. next up, 200mph duct tape. redneck or brilliant minute body work.



:lol:
HRDROKN
MC-7P tube preanp, BBE2002R, Marchand XM44, TFM-35x .002, TFM-35x, M1.0t MKII .002, M500t, Silver 7t's, SDA-360 and Klipsch KLF-30's w/crites crossovers...
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