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Does something seem wrong here?

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Planerguy

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Post Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:43 pm

Does something seem wrong here?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sunfire-Amplifier-/ ... 25659cb429

Read at the bottom where he says essentially he has to crank it to sound good. Seem just a little "fishy" for a "0" feedback SELLER, or is it just me? Or, is that just the way they are?
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OconeeOrange

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Post Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:54 pm

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

ebay is a crap shoot --

He is not a "0" seller, but close.

If I were in the market, I would go 700 on this.

PM him and see what reply you get.
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nooshinjohn

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Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:07 am

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

I question the fresh "Armor-All" shine he's got going there... makes me wonder what he is trying to cover up.
Carver Statement Reference Monoblocks!!!The Gear... Carver "Statement" Monoblocks, Polk Audio "Signature" Reference Series 1.2TL with complete mods, Polk audio AB700/800 "in-wall" surrounds, Dodd Audio MLP, Pioneer Elite SC-65, Peachtree I-DAC, Oppo BDP-93, Yamaha PX-3 Turntable, with Sumiko BPS EVOIII, Pioneer PDD 9MkII SACD Player, SimAudio moon 110lp phono preamplifier.[/size]
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F1nut

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Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:18 am

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

And all in all, sometimes this amp can sound like it is not as powerful as rated. It just doesn't 'seem' like 300 honest-to-God 8ohm watts sometimes.


I think that is a very honest statement and is something I have thought for years about Carver/Sunfire SS amps.
Political Correctness...defined

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In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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1044InProgress

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Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:57 am

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

It's gone now, for some reason.. Hmmm
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TNRabbit

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Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:16 am

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

F1nut wrote:
And all in all, sometimes this amp can sound like it is not as powerful as rated. It just doesn't 'seem' like 300 honest-to-God 8ohm watts sometimes.


I think that is a very honest statement and is something I have thought for years about Carver/Sunfire SS amps.


I've never experienced this...in fact, I've never run across a load that the Sunfire wouldn't drive all day at phenomenal levels.

What exactly makes you say that, Jesse?
TNRabbit
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Chauss

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Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:40 am

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

TNRabbit wrote:
F1nut wrote:
And all in all, sometimes this amp can sound like it is not as powerful as rated. It just doesn't 'seem' like 300 honest-to-God 8ohm watts sometimes.


I think that is a very honest statement and is something I have thought for years about Carver/Sunfire SS amps.


I've never experienced this...in fact, I've never run across a load that the Sunfire wouldn't drive all day at phenomenal levels.

What exactly makes you say that, Jesse?


I agree with the Rabbit here- What are you comparing it to.... 300 watt class A amplification? It has driven my Apogee's with ease for 20+ years without any issues. I believe it will hold it's own with any 300 watt SS amp in the same class.
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F1nut

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Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:07 pm

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

I'm comparing them to all the other SS amps I've heard along the road. They (Carver more than Sunfire) just don't seem to be as powerful as other similarly rated amps. Lacking current perhaps.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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Chauss

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Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:14 pm

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

Thanks for the clarification!
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Good sound—like good music, good wine and good fellowship—is meant to be shared.
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BillD

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Post Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:30 pm

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

After being inside of a number of Carver amps, I can say that Bob used most of the available current from his output devices (they operate in the safe range at the maximum, but just). I modified an M-500t that I use with higher current devices all around, from commutators and pre-drivers to output devices (and changed the input op-amp. It is a much more robust sounding amp. I did this to a second amp, and changed all that and beefed up the rectifiers and changed the caps upward so I could run the rails at 95V (basically a Mk.II). It sounds the same as the other one, but it really is loafing along.

Carver didn't parallel output devices for more current until the A-series. The A-760x is a beast, and sounds it. I have an A-500x that has parallel output devices, but half as many as the A-760x.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
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Planerguy

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Post Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:46 pm

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

i noticed this effect with couple of carver "t" series amps, and I thought it might be due to the mods to make them sound softer and more tube like?
I'm sure the specs are on this site, and just as sure some of you know without looking: What is the voltage needed from the preamp to make some of the Carver, and apparently the Sunfire amps deliver full output?
if that spec. is appreciably higher then other designs, then what we're really saying is just that we have to turn the preamp gain up higher then we are used to doing. Maybe, this fools us into thinking they have less output then they actually do?
As long as our preamplifier can deliver the voltage cleanly, it shouldn't really matter.
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F1nut

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Post Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:59 pm

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

I wouldn't call adding a 1.5 ohm, 50 watt resistor at the outputs, "due to the mods".

As long as our preamplifier can deliver the voltage cleanly, it shouldn't really matter.


What shouldn't matter?
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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ekog

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Post Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:21 am

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

Ok I went out and looked at the auction site and now I’m curious about the Sunfire's in the posting some one asked a question which was:

Q: Can you tell me the model name of your Carver amp? There are a couple of different models so I'm trying to figure out which one it is. Jul-16-11
A: To be honest. I am not sure. I'll give u some of the info from the bank. Says 5 amp: SLO-BLO: MDL/Q if that means anything to you. Also the S/N # 9507100578. Hope that helps. If you need more info or where I can locate MDL # let me know. The manual doesn't specify and I can't find anything obvious on the amp itself.

isn’t the model number or model name printed somewhere on the cassis of the AMP I’ve never one close so I don’t know but you would think it would be.
:-k
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BillD

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Post Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:48 am

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

Well, the fuse is right for the current source outputs of a 300x2, and so is the date from the serial number (9507) to be a very early Sunfire Stereo Amplifier (300).
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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Planerguy

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Post Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:24 pm

Re: Does something seem wrong here?

F1nut - adding a 1.5 ohm resistor seems to me to be a SERIOUS mod. If we're talking speakers which drop to as low as 3 ohms or so, that's a major drop in db's, relative to what we'd expect for a typical design without the resistor, at the same gain settings. Also, What about the damping then? People are out there buying 4 ga. wire for their speaker runs to reduce the resistance, and improve amplifier damping control. If this resistance is in series with the outputs(you didn't say), then that really makes the wire issue silly. If it's in parallel then I'm totally at a loss to understand how these even work then. What's going on with the Sunfires current or voltage outputs? Just inclusion, or exclusion of this resistor? I haven't looked at the schematics, so whatever you say there is gospel in my book. I'm just asking.

What shouldn't matter? Is that the question? Seems obvious enough - what shouldn't matter is where we have the volume position set on the preamp, whether it's 1/4 turn, or 1/2 turn is not important, as long as we are not asking for more voltage then the preamp can cleanly deliver. Position then is just psychological. We might think that,"hey this 300 watt amplifier isn't as powerful as my other 300 watt amplifier", just because we are turning the gain higher for the same volume.
I've seen this when people try and use PA amplifiers in home systems. The PA amplifiers and Preamplifier s, mixers, etc. work with different gain and voltages then our Home equipment in many cases. Crown,or Yamaha(forget which?) has a good read pertaining to this on their website, if anyone is interested.

I'll be out the rest of the day, but this 2 output taps on the Sunfire amps intrigues me, and it would be nice to know what's going on there! Will definitely check this topic tomorrow. Thanks to whomever explains this in simple enough terms for a dummy like me!
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