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Dynamic music....the definition

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treitz3

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Post Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:27 pm

Dynamic music....the definition

What, in your best words or even linked / quoted words would YOU consider the definition of dynamic.....as it relates to reproduced music?















Dynamic music is defined as...
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sisu1a

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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:02 am

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

I have no fancy definitions, nor witty quotes of my own or others to add on the subject, but I think I'm the last one to use it while describing something in a post, so I'll give it a go, or at least explain what it means to me...

I consider dynamics in music, to be how far down and how high up, in Hz the sound covers within a song or album. The dynamic range being the Frequency spectrum that a song, or album fits within, from the lowest note to the highest. I consider this it's performance envelope. The more dynamic, the wider the spectrum, the larger the envelope. I also consider volume into dynamics as well, so the larger the dB range it covers, the more dynamic it is.

Finding things to play that provide as much of a workout for the sub as the mids and tweets is an ongoing love affair of mine. Most of the music I find to fit this bill is electronic, but of course not limited to...

-Paul
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angelod307

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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:30 am

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

yup, what he said.
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TNRabbit

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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:32 am

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

Dynamic range is not frequency range; it is the difference (in decibels) between the softest & loudest sounds in the music.
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PDR

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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:52 am

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

TNRabbit wrote:Dynamic range is not frequency range; it is the difference (in decibels) between the softest & loudest sounds in the music.


Yep, I agree. How well speakers play Dynamic music.....in my opinion.....would be how "fast" they can start and stop. Less excursion means less stopping time. Many smaller speakers, like James new array should play dynamic music very tight without the slow movement associated with big woofers.

Thats my take and I'm stickin to it.
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kingman

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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:55 am

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

Dynamic music for me is defined as the way I react to the music. Is it dynamic in it's presentation and impact on my senses...does it illicite reaction to the music. Is it stirring.
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radioeng2

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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:23 am

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

Dynamic certainly isn't bandwidth. Neither is it really musical signal to noise. Music from the quietest to loudest isn't really enough. I like the way PDR leaned, with it including the what the music can do with the speaker! So to me....

Dynamic music is defined as...jump factor!

Example is the Chinese drum track on the Burmester sampler. I played yesterday for a fellow broadcast engineer. He sat with this funny expression on his face and finally comments on how you could feel it impact physically on you. (He also talked about how you could hear the height of the drum hit go up and down vertically..."the first time I've ever heard height change in a recording") And this was from the fast and "dynamic" playback, not from volume. This on my DIY 8" FR line source speakers from a 15 watt SE SS amp system. He, BTW, is used to listening to his band played back from what he's just recorded digitally, thru an outdoor concert system being used inside with several thousand watts, stacks of huge drivers etc....

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hewlew1

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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:57 am

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

So with taking into account all that has been posted so far would it be safe to say that a air suspension or passive radiator design would be more dynamic because of the reduced excursion of the cones versus a ported enclosure. Let the debate begin.
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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:32 pm

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

hewlew1 wrote:So with taking into account all that has been posted so far would it be safe to say that a air suspension or passive radiator design would be more dynamic because of the reduced excursion of the cones versus a ported enclosure. Let the debate begin.


My arrays are in a sealed box, there are 64 x 3" drivers pointing directly at you from 2 sources. You can hit incredibly loud, but you have to touch the drivers to realize theyre moving. So i think size of drivers plays a role in dynamics, but like the arrays you need multiples for volume. These are the most dynamic speakers I own. Unfortunately I need subs for under 110 and the sealed subs I pair with them
sound....crappy. The other day I hooked up the servo subs from my OBs and gave it a try with the arrays. It was MUCH improved....I listen for hrs that night. But the servo subs are known for theyre really tight bass, but they are in a H frame.....so maybe no box at all would work the best, for some implementations.
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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:53 pm

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

Mark,
According to Wikipedia- BOTH you and Gary are correct! :D

Dynamics (music)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In music, dynamics normally refers to the volume of a sound or note, but can also refer to every aspect of the execution of a given piece, either stylistic (staccato, legato etc.) or functional (velocity). The term is also applied to the written or printed musical notation used to indicate dynamics. Dynamics do not indicate specific volume levels, but are meant to be played with reference to the ensemble as a whole. Dynamic indications are derived from Italian words.
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jjptkd

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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:55 pm

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

Multiple drivers is for surface area. Kind of like an electrostatic screen, big surface area with little movement. It works just the same in opposite, a big driver like a 15 would have to move much less then a 4" or even a series of 4 inchers.
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PDR

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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:57 pm

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

line arrays work a little different.....not my words but good explanation.....

The simplest definition of a "line array" is: a number of special independent units (loudspeakers), vertically stacked and aligned, that operate as a single sound source and which provide coherent summing, if some conditions are met.
The vertical stacking achieves a sound field that has a narrow vertical coverage, with higher directivity and sound pressure than conventional systems.
The sound waves emitted are referred as "cylindrical waves", and they attenuate only 3 dB for every doubling of the distance from the source, as opposed to the "spherical waves" emitted by conventional loudspeakers, which attenuate 6 dB for every doubling of distance.

This is true up to a distance from the source which is dependent upon its frequency and the height of the array, thus the longer the array is made (building it with more loudspeakers) the longer the throw of the system.
Cylindrical waves only expand in the horizontal plane, not in the vertical plane. The area doubles every time the radius (distance from the source) is doubled, which is equivalent to a loss of pressure of only 3 dB.
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elgrau

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Post Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:00 pm

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

Won't mess with anyone's notion of "dynamic music" but with regards to the DYNAMIC's of speaker motions it's pretty simple. The speaker/cone/surround/spyder is a classic spring - mass system. Current flowing in the VC produces a force on the cone in proportion to this current. Assume this force to be sinusoidal at frequency omega and amplitude B: F = B x sin(omega x t). Since F=MA, the acceleration of the cone is A x sin(omega x t) where A = B/M and where M ~= the mass of the moving parts of the speaker. From the calculus you can time integrate the cone's acceleration twice to get the cone's displacement:

D = A/(omega^2) x sin(omega x t) (ignoring signs)

Now note that displacement (D) gets very large at low frequencies and very small at high frequencies. which is why you need drivers with LARGE dispersion for them to be able to produce low-low frequencies. Just as an "for example", assume the VC imparts 20 g's of acceleration to the cone. At 20 Hz (20 x 2 x pi radians/sec.) the driver needs to be able to deflect +/-0.5"! [(20 x 386.4)/(20 x 2 x pi)^2]. Otherwise, this 20 Hz bass note will be "top chopped" and DISTORTED! And note that this is all FREQUENCY dependent and NOT driver size related (i.e., a 5" woofer needs exactly the same dispersion as a 15" woofer). The 15" will "drive" more air due to its much larger area, but requires exactly the same magnitude and velocity of "back and forth" motion as the 5" driver.....(and the cone VELOCITY determines SPL....i.e., the loudness of the speaker, and (aside) since kinetic energy varies as the SQUARE of velocity, it's apparent why needed watts vs loudness is very non-linear and displayed using log scales....).

note: the above relationships between cone acceleration and displacement are more applicable to the FREE vibrations of a system (as opposed to the FORCED vibration response of a system/driver), but in general, apply to both...
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treitz3

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Post Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:57 pm

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

Well, according to Stereophile, this is the definition of dynamic range....

dynamic range 1) Pertaining to a signal: the ratio between the loudest and the quietest passages. 2) Pertaining to a component: the ratio between its no-signal noise and the loudest peak it will pass without distortion.

Since we are talking about music, we will use definition #1. Does anybody else have a better or different definition of dynamic music?
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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radioeng2

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Post Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:25 pm

Re: Dynamic music....the definition

Tom to me, dynamics has a connotation of speed in it. Without speed, then the music might be at a low minimum this hour and build to a crest in the next hour. Would you consider that a dynamic? You have to hear the huge change right now to get "dynamics".

And to me, Stereophiles defination #1 only talks to max to minimum. While it does say "passages", it otherwise totally says signal to noise. I've spent years and years measuring the floor and comparing that to the nominal level and calling that the signal to noise spec. I never once considered that to have anything at all to do with dynamics.

If the blur of distortion is in there, then the dynamic is blunted. You have to get from here to there with incredible clean speed, to me, to get the maximum dynamic. So I don't know how you can define dynamics without some mention of speed.

I don't see that in the Stereophile definitions. With maximum passed signal down to the floor, is an empty promise without any fullfilment.

Mark

PS..."Jump factor" is the physical proof of real dynamics.
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