The end of the CD? Truth or bullshit?

Carver Home Audio (Stereo) Discussions and Questions
User avatar
treitz3
"Julian"
"Julian"
Posts: 7805
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm
Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post by treitz3 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:14 pm

jjptkd wrote:Listening to the Lightstar preamp in my system, it's really a lot pickier on what music I can play. Every mp3 is different and a great number of them are unacceptable now. I think the real problem is all you audiophile types have too nice of stereos for mp3s, just too revealing. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You say that like it's a bad thing. O:)

Yes, audiophiles generally have a very revealing system which is why this download crap is just that. Crap. Why spend untold hours researching, traveling, listening, auditioning and setting up such a nice system when you are going to feed it shit? You can't make chicken soup out of chicken shit. My system reveals many things. One of them is that downloaded music and copies of music sound different [not in a good way] than that of the original source [CD, for example].

One needs a system to be revealing in order to hear the texture in the individual instruments and voices. It needs to be revealing enough to separate individual instruments during passages that have many things going on all at once and it has to be revealing in order to experience the subtleties that are required in order to not just listen to the music but in order to experience it.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

User avatar
carlton8000
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:02 pm

Re: The end of the CD? Truth or bullshit?

Post by carlton8000 » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:51 pm

In all actuality a properly implemented computer based system can run rings around a cd spinner. Consider the fact that most music first hand off from the studio is on to a hard drive based computer system. At last years CES there were some server based system that would sound wise please the most diehard audio file. Hirez downloads are available at higher resolution than your standard CD. I have found that he room has the most influence on playback. And honestly most mastering engineers have joined the loudness wars. Enough rambling, time 2 go 2 work. 8)
Apple ATV2 (3)
Apogee Centaur Minor
Apogee Columns
Apogee Scintilla
B&O Beomaster 2400
Behringer B2092A
Carver ALS original
Carver C-9
Carver CT-7
Carver M-4.0t
Carver MXR-900
Carver TX-11
Dayton APA150(2)
Harmon Kardon CDR 2
Jamo Sub250(2)
Kenwood KR-2400
Marantz 2230
Meridian 568
Meridian 518
NHT Super Zero
Realistic Minimus 7(2)
Sony EP9es
Visonik David 30

User avatar
PDR
TFM-45
Posts: 559
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:57 pm
Location: Linbrook, Alberta Canada

Re: The end of the CD? Truth or bullshit?

Post by PDR » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:20 pm

Must be a Fall thing....winter blues. Seems like every audio forum I go to has
some new debate about this subject.

Seems like most new music sounds like crap on any system you play it on. Its produced for the ear bud crowd. Although I do listen to a lot of new "well recorded" artists, it would seem to me that most of the stuff I listen to came off a master tape...just my taste I guess. The Hi-rez stuff is being touted as pretty good, but from what I understand theres not much of it and it takes a lot of space up.

Like I said, I'll wait a while.....few yrs...I think it will improve itself by then. That being said, I have listened to a lot of different gear, in a lot of places.....seems to me that if your upgrading to the puter
formats.....and a lot of guys are......the money would be better spent on the room itself, before the source. Whats the point of getting a better format when most gear is stuck in a corner in an untreated room? Seems its kinda like putting new seats in a Ferrari with bald tires and saying "Wow" thats better.

Another thing that seems odd is most people that sing the praises of the puter have never spent time with a really good CDP, yep they're expensive.....but getting back to that Ferrari thing.....imagine it with proper tires and an open road......cant compare that to a pinto....and of course the new Buick is better than the pinto.....still not a Ferrari.

User avatar
F1nut
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 4491
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:31 am
Location: The Mars Hotel

Re: The end of the CD? Truth or bullshit?

Post by F1nut » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:23 pm

In all actuality a properly implemented computer based system can run rings around a cd spinner.
Not saying that it's not possible, but I've yet to hear one that can top a high end SACD/CD player.
Consider the fact that most music first hand off from the studio is on to a hard drive based computer system.
Hmmm....I thought tape was still the preferred recording medium.
Hirez downloads are available at higher resolution than your standard CD.
You mean like all those hi-rez downloads that turned out not to be? Besides that, any decent CDP will upsample. The fact is that a properly mastered Redbook CD will sound incredible.
I have found that he room has the most influence on playback.
It's important, no doubt, but the best room in the world won't make crappy gear sound good. It always starts with the mastering and the source it's played on.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."

User avatar
F1nut
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 4491
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:31 am
Location: The Mars Hotel

Re: The end of the CD? Truth or bullshit?

Post by F1nut » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:26 pm

Another thing that seems odd is most people that sing the praises of the puter have never spent time with a really good CDP, yep they're expensive.....
Agreed.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."

User avatar
treitz3
"Julian"
"Julian"
Posts: 7805
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm
Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Linn backs out of the CDP production...

Post by treitz3 » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:03 am

One of Britain's most prestigious hi-fi firms has signaled what could be the beginning of the end for CDs. Linn Products, which has the Royal Warrant, is to stop manufacturing CD players as demand plummets because more and more people are downloading music online instead. Founder Ivor Tiefenbrun, who set up the firm to sell turntables in 1972, said customers 'recognized the limitations of CD players'. He added: 'People want better control of music and the ability to enjoy it in any room of their home. 'People are not buying new CD players. The success of the iPod means people are used to downloading music.' Instead, the company is focusing on digital music streamers - wireless devices to connect your home computer and hi-fi system. This allows music fans to play any tracks downloaded on the computer or MP3 throughout the home.

A Linn spokesman, which is based near Glasgow, said that these digital players outsold CD players this year for the first time. But he added that although this spelled doom for home CD players, CDs themselves were still useful as a way of recording and storing music. Tom Dunmore, of the gadget magazine Stuff, said other hi-fi firms would follow Linn's lead, adding: 'I think we will see a lot of other people following suit.'

It is almost 30 years since CDs began to be sold commercially, replacing vinyl records and cassette tapes as the music format of choice by the late Eighties. The British Phonographic Industry trade body says 2009 is set to be a record year for single sales. More than 117million tracks had been bought by the end of October, before the Christmas run has even begun. Of these 99 per cent were legal digital downloads.

For albums, CD sales are still the preferred option but experts say their market share is slumping. In 2008, there were 137million album sales, made up of 123 million CDs, 10.3 million digital downloads, while vinyl records, cassettes and other formats accounted for around 300,000. Just two years ago, there were 154million album sales, of which CDs accounted for 151million, and digital for 2.7million. But in a final twist vinyl looks set to outlive the young pretender to its throne.

Top DJs prefer records, because of the flexibility of the format for mixing, while audiophiles enjoy its 'warm' higher quality of sound compression. Demand is such that Scottish-based Linn, whose top systems cost more than £100,000 pounds, is continuing to make turntables. The CD is not the first technology to be made obsolete in the digital age. Its little brother the DVD pushed stalwart VHS cassettes out of the living room and consigned bulky players to the dustbin. And sales across the board have suffered as digital downloading has taken hold, with millions downloading movies and music for free, while paid for downloads are booming.

Adam Liversage, spokesman of the British Phonographic Industry, said the move could be significant. He said: 'This is a very interesting development. Typically it is the high end audio manufacturers that do drive things forward in audio. 'There will always be early adopters who look to take up the latest technologies in the music scene. 'For example the introduction of multi-channel SACD's at the millennium offered a higher level of quality, and they are popular with the higher end users. The fact they are playable on the Playstation 3 has made them more accessible.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z1ecxgG3bK



The above article taken from - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ction.html
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

User avatar
ekog
TFM-6cb
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:50 am
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Wait a minute...

Post by ekog » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:29 am

treitz3 wrote:If you can't copy it, then how does one back it up?
:-k The plan is that eventually your “Music” would be stored in the cloud (cloud = collection of servers accessible over the internet) utilizing some service like iTunes and would be streamed to you as you wanted to play it on your system. To keep storage requirements to a minimum your “Music” would be stored as a title in your account and when you requested it the “Music” would download to you from a common master file. This account is supposed to follow you throughout your life storing the entire content of your music collection and would be accessible from any compatible device that had access to the internet. It all sounds like a great idea until the asset server has a hiccup or the internet goes down then all you will be listening to is paint on your walls peeling. Personally I like hard copies of my music I guess I’m just paranoid. 8-[
Main System Setup:
Pre: Carver C2 | Amp: Carver M-500t|Equilizer: Sansui SE99|Speakers: Polk SDA2’s
Source: Tuner: Carver TX-2| Phono: Technics SL-1210 MkII with a Ortofon VMS 20E Mk II| DirecTV DVR | Pioneer HLD-X9 Laserdisc player | Samsung DVD/VHS player

Second System Setup:
Receiver: Yamaha RXV867| Fronts: Klipsch F-30's |Sub: Klipsch SW-112
Source: Radio |Internet/Network | Sony CDP-70 CD player

User avatar
F1nut
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 4491
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:31 am
Location: The Mars Hotel

Re: The end of the CD? Truth or bullshit?

Post by F1nut » Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:27 am

Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."

User avatar
treitz3
"Julian"
"Julian"
Posts: 7805
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm
Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

kinda figured it was....

Post by treitz3 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:01 am

Good, because I have and always will only buy round music.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

cring08
TFM-45
Posts: 644
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:50 am
Location: Cincinnati,OH

Re: TRUTH

Post by cring08 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:33 am

TORO3 wrote:I utterly miss going to the music store after work or during the weekends. For me, it's more about the ambiance of the music store and the opportunity to interact and seek advice from someone else. I can't tell you how many gems I've found just through conversation. That's what I'll miss. The human element and the ability to walk around, look at the cover, take a listen, and then purchase a non-compressed piece of music.
I agree. I grew up on vinyl. I loved being able to see the artwork and read the lyrics. My friends and I then collected CD's as well. A lot of CD's included the same info as the album when they first came out. A lot of artists also did signings when albums were released. Do people even listen to an entire album/CD anymore? All of the best songs seemed to be the ones not played on the radio! We used to go to record stores to find imports and music that was not officially released, etc...

I have found 2 vinyl shops within 10 minutes of my house. I go there every Saturday and get the old feeling I used to as a kid. There are the owners and always a few guys hanging around talking about music.
Chris

Living Room/main System:
Onkyo tx nr 545
Sunfire 300x2
Carver Amazing Silvers
Carver SD 390t
Technics SL 1950 Turntable
Polk Audio outdoor speakers wired to deck
Polk audio wired to pool table room

Basement/system 2:
Carver MXR-130
Teac reel to reel
Musical Fidelity X-10D tube buffer
BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer
Nikko eq2
Cerwin Vega HED's
Klipsch SW15
Infinity RS10's
Pioneer 100 disk changer

Garage system:
Pioneer VSX something?
Polk Audio 2500

User avatar
F1nut
SILVER-7 TUBE AMP
Posts: 4491
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:31 am
Location: The Mars Hotel

Re: The end of the CD? Truth or bullshit?

Post by F1nut » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:14 am

So you think you're actually getting a hi-rez download? LOL, don't bet on it. http://www.itrax.com/Pages/ArticleDetails.php?aID=32

Just another reason I'll never download squat!
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."

User avatar
treitz3
"Julian"
"Julian"
Posts: 7805
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm
Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post by treitz3 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:31 pm

Dang. =;
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Post Reply

Return to “Carver Home (Audio)”