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Speaker wire

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mikekohut

TFM-45

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Post Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:32 pm

Speaker wire

Okay, this may likely start the debate from: "Lamp cord is just as good" to "only true audiophile wire will bring the most out of your system." For the sake of argument, let's assume that, at some point, speaker wire *does* make a difference in sound presentation and, at some point, no longer can a difference can be heard - depending on the quality of both the wire and the aggregate ability of the system in question, as a whole. Fair assumption, yes?

That said... what speaker wire do you all like? Now that I'm running a single amp, and not two amps bi-wired, I'm wanting to clean up things behind the rack and run single wire (right now my bi-wire is in a single housing - I could tape off the extra terminals, but I'm finicky). My system:

Cambridge Audio Azur 540R Receiver
Cambridge Audio Azur 540D Universal Player
Carver TFM75
B&W DM604 S3s & LCR600 S3 center

I'm running simple RCA (radio shack) flat wire under the carpet for my surrounds but, again, would like to put some decent wire on the front channels.
"Watch those meters dance...."
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Mr. M-500t

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Post Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:39 pm

Use whatever the hell you want ! That's all I can say Mike.
Excluding the small cheap stuff, I haven't heard a bit of difference between any of them ! :-s
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frankieD

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Post Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:32 pm

Speaker wire

I'm with you mr500t. Except for the thin junk, I've never heard any difference with a good heavy (14 or less) guage wire. Some audiophiles can hear many differences that elude me so judge for yourself. I do think that spending extra money for "Name" speaker wire is not the best use of the money.

Frank
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hewlew1

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Post Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:50 pm

I agree that the extra money for name brand wire is a waste. My longest run is about 40 feet so I bought the Sound King 12 GA wire from Parts Express. Back then a 100 ft roll was 29 bucks.
"Carver Audio, why settle for less, just ask my neighbors"
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F1nut

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Post Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:48 pm

depending on the quality of both the wire and the aggregate ability of the system in question, as a whole.


BINGO!!!



For 2 channel music, cables will make or break your system, if your system has enough resolution. For HT, I don't think it matters anywhere near as much.

For the record, I prefer MIT.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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mikekohut

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Post Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:34 pm

Okay, so a few naysayers out there and then an MIT fan. There are also others that describe cable as having similiar qualities as the various pieces of electronics in a system. For example, either bright, veiled, neutral, etc.... my particular system now seems rather bright on the high end. This is clearly the result of the synergy of all pieces together, so maybe a cable that takes the high end and neutralizes it a bit?
"Watch those meters dance...."
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treitz3

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Post Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:46 pm

This is a post off of the PF that might answer some of your questions regarding speaker wire.

Author's name Kenneth Swauger
Polk Customer Service

As you can see speaker wire discussions can become very controversial and often heated. There are some listeners who place a great deal of emphasis on differences in speaker wire and others, just as vocal, who place none at all. I'll try and offer some useful information that, hopefully, might be of interest.
The connections between the amplifier, the speaker wire and the speaker itself form a resonant system. The amplifier's output characteristics and the speaker's input characteristics combine with the properties of the speaker wire to form a tuned circuit. This might work to explain why, in some systems, a significant difference can be heard and in others much less. The particular tuning result may or may not be audible.
In my opinion, it is the DC resistance of the wire that seems to be the most important characteristic, of the speaker wire, with frequencies below 600Hz. In other words when we are dealing with upper bass and lower bass sounds the resistance of the wire seems to be the most important. When we think of frequencies above 600Hz the inductance of the speaker wire seems to be the most important characteristic of the wire. To me this is one of the benefits of bi-wiring a speaker. You can experiment with different speaker wires for the two pathways. A thicker, lower DC resistance wire for the lower frequencies and a thinner, less inductive wire for upper frequencies. Lower DC resistance wires tend to be thick "zip cord" type wires, two big bundles running side-by-side of high purity copper strands. Low inductance wires tend to be made of smaller bundles woven or braided together to reduce inductive coupling of zip cord type wires. Kimber Kable is an example of a low inductance wire. Just like your speakers are two-way designs with components optimized for each frequency range, your speaker wire can be a two-way design also. Each conductive path optimized for the frequency range it conducts.
Keep in mind this is all going to depend upon the characteristics of the speakers and the amplifier. But, it can be worth the effort.
Regards, Ken

From treitz3, hope this helps.......
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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MIKE PARENT

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Post Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:11 am

this has been brought up time and again on the other site that i call home. basically you have two camps, the believers and the non believers and i have seen people be banned over this very subject.
obviously im the latter..
they even have a place (dealer) in ontario that will burn your 'high end' cable for a 20.00 fee. absolute garbage. even if you disconnect to replace some of your equipment they suggest bringing your cables in for a reburn and then they wont sound proper for at least a 100 hour burn in. again complete garbage.
a statement has been made by the production people that the micronic or atoms of said cable must fully aligned before you get the full effects of the cables. again absolute garbage.
basically what im saying is if you want to fall for that garbage then so be it spend your money. but a cable is a cable. spend it on a decent set and you will be rewarded. but keep it to a reasonable level. i have never spent any more than 35.00 for a set of silver interconnects with decent connecters and have never been disappointed.
like putting a bread board under this or that, yeah right, want to buy a bridge. near manhatten...
other people will spend like no tomorrow on heresay and hype on cables. as far as im concerned if a person has to relly on interconnects to get a better sound from his/her system then you better start looking upstream in the feed because you missed the bus there.
by the way i must go i have to find some shacki stones to put on my speakers, i hear they give them life and breath ... :-({|=

sorry but by the way lampcord is fine

rant over... \:D/
2 marantz ma-500 amps,magnepan mg-12's, sanyo plus c55 preamp, sanyo plus t35 tuner. grant tube buffer. budget yes..but sounds great...
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F1nut

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Post Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:14 am

Mike, since you felt comfortable enough to speak your mind and basically insult my ears and intelligence, at the very least, let me respond in kind.

Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know and you don't know.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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MIKE PARENT

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Post Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:43 am

well i will reply to that with what i just said there are two camps. period those that believe that stuff like this works and those of us that dont.
leave the intelligence factor out of this conversation as i believe this is saturday night and when it comes to cables, some people who buy into this crap either need someone to help them across the road or tie their shoes.
too tired and not willing to put up with a turf war over something as stupid as cables. which down deep you know is a scam.
the only people that bennefit over cables are the dealers and the people who just dont know what they are talking about. or else people who bought into the whole idea (and spent thousands) and have to justify it so they dont look bad.
cables are just that cables. a to b. google blind tests on cables. on the very subject and you will see. there is nobody out there in any a-b test that can tell the difference between cables. it has been proven.
i end my case.
now lets see how many people i have offended.
2 marantz ma-500 amps,magnepan mg-12's, sanyo plus c55 preamp, sanyo plus t35 tuner. grant tube buffer. budget yes..but sounds great...
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digital

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Post Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:27 am

Offended

I am with you 100%! In the history of our hobby, there isn't a single recorded case of a person who - when they couldn't see what cable was in use - could audibly differentiate between high-priced cable and hardware store copper wire of the same gauge / length. Not one. That, in itself is fact enough to overcome any bull statements by 'cable-faithful' and my personal experience bears it out as well - oh, and yes, I have 'high-resolution' audio reproduction kit (Magneplanar / Roksan / PSAudio).

Long live honesty!

Andrew D.
http://www.cdnav.com
Last edited by digital on Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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F1nut

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Post Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:29 am

I'm going to say something I don't think I've ever said on here before. You're as ignorant as you are stupid.

Since you've obviously never tried high end cables in your rig, just how the hell do you know? You don't! Reading something on the web isn't like trying it yourself. I've been in this hobby for over 36 years and have tried countless cables on countless gear. You?

Oh yeah, one other thing. Any time you want to compare your $35.00 silver IC's against mine, just come on over. I'll pick mine every time and I put my money where my mouth is.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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digital

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Post Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:32 am

Posers ahoy!

I'm going to say something I don't think I've ever said on here before. You're as ignorant as you are stupid.


Nice... and you sir, are as stupid as you are ignorant. You plan on being the first person on the planet to be able to pick out a set of RCA or speaker cables - unsighted - that world-record ~ I would just bloody love to see! No, wait, I get it - "even your wife was able to hear it"?

Andrew D.
http://www.cdnav.com
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F1nut

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Post Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:47 am

JHC where do all these putz boys come from?

All of 4 posts and you're going to insult me, twice! Just what gear do you own and what cables have you tried and I don't want to hear about what you read.

Come on, I'm waiting.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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F1nut

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Post Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:02 am

I see you made a little edit to include, "(Magneplanar / Roksan / PSAudio)."

Ok, I've heard products from all three.

I don't know anyone that would call Roksan high end, mid-fi at best. Maggie's have no real bass without a sub and PS Audio...what cables? Never liked their IC/speaker cables, no resolution. They do make nice power products however.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."
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