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Got a Sub!!!

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Dreamer

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SILVER-7t

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Location: Washington, NC

Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:54 pm

Got a Sub!!!

I finally got a sub. Granted, it's not the one I REALLY want (The Sunfire Super) but it seems to be doing pretty good, and gives my Sequels the low-freq extension that makes them sound REALLY authoritative...

And the winner is:

a used Velodyne F-1500 B.

It's pretty musical, and has a nice relaxed but tight "thump" that should make movies a REAL treat now...

Now I just have to figure out where to put it. It can't go in the middle of the speakers, because the magnet in the Velodyne's voice coil is so powerful that it makes my TV go all wonky unless I set it out from the TV cabinet about 4ft. It looks silly set off to the side, and I'll have to get some LOOOONG cables to put it in the back of the room (which may be what I end up doing, for SAF reasons).

And I got it in a pawn shop for a pretty good deal, so selling the new purchase to my sweetie should be easy, especially after we watch a few movies with it kicked in... ;)

Now, the hard part--dialing the darn thing in. It's a servo sub, but not a DSP unit, so callibration is going to be a little tricky. I may use the "auto calibration" on my Sony receiver (that I'm using for surround processing), or I may just break down and get that Velodyne SMS-1 that I've been talking about (and drooling over) for so long...

Anyway, it sounds nice, and gives my ESL speakers the long-needed boost in the sub-40hz range that they've always needed.

--Richard
.....HT Rig • Sony STR-DG600 Receiver • Carver M-500t • Sony BDP-S1 • Sony DVP-NS3100ES • Apple Airport Express •
..............................• Martin Logan Scenarios, Logos • Realistic Minimus 7's • Velodyne F-1500b •

2 Ch. Rig • Carver C-4000t • Silver 7t's • Krell KAV-300i • Oppo DV-981HD • Benchmark DAC1-USB • MacBook Pro 17", iTunes •
......• Technics SL-1350 turntable with Sumiko headshell, leads, and Bluepoint cartridge • Martin Logan Sequels •

.........................................................-+-Click Here to see my system-+-
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bob p

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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:02 pm

sounds like a good deal. i hope you got a good price on it.

when you've got it settled in place, don't forget to give us updated photos! ;)
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.
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Toy Maker

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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:22 pm

Re: Got a Sub!!!

Dreamer wrote:Now I just have to figure out where to put it. It can't go in the middle of the speakers, because the magnet in the Velodyne's voice coil is so powerful that it makes my TV go all wonky unless I set it out from the TV cabinet about 4ft. It looks silly set off to the side, and I'll have to get some LOOOONG cables to put it in the back of the room (which may be what I end up doing, for SAF reasons)..
--Richard


What a dumass.....

Don't you know anything..........

You need to buy ANOTHER one, so you can put one in each corner of the room... Duuuuu then the room will be symmetrical again..
God, do I have to solve everyones problems or what?? hehehe

PS... glad to hear you GOT BASS !!!!! Low&Slow....
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it... because nobody else will.

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
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bob p

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SILVER-7t

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Location: Chicago

Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:38 pm

well, i agree that 2 subs are better than one, but i'm not about to spoil the mood. =;

yeah, Dreamer, you need to Feng-Shui your room with two subwoofers. That's the ticket. :lol:
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.
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Dreamer

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SILVER-7t

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Location: Washington, NC

Post Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:58 am

You know, I was thinking just that...

Trouble is finding another F-1500 B in this cherry condition for such a good price, and local, because shipping on this beast is probably going to be close to what I paid for it otherwise. :O

I'll definitely keep my eyes open though. That Velodyne SMS-1 crossover/EQ unit DOES have multiple outputs (4 I think), so hooking up two subs would be easy enough, once I get that unit too. ;)

The original plan was to get two Sunfire Super Jr's and the SMS-1, but with a total pricetag of close to $2000, I thought that was going to be a REALLY hard sell to my sweety, ESPECIALLY after just buying a pair of Silver 7t's and those Scenarios...

We'll see. If I'm not happy with the F-1500 in 6 months, it may go "on the block" to fund a replacement or something. It IS a big, cumbersome beast, and with that monster magnet in it, it's probably going to end up in the rear of the room between the surround speakers. I suppose I'm going to have to break out the soldering iron this weekend and fabricate a LONG cable to hook it up with. Time for a visit to the local "electronics candy store" for more wire and RCAs...

--Richard
.....HT Rig • Sony STR-DG600 Receiver • Carver M-500t • Sony BDP-S1 • Sony DVP-NS3100ES • Apple Airport Express •
..............................• Martin Logan Scenarios, Logos • Realistic Minimus 7's • Velodyne F-1500b •

2 Ch. Rig • Carver C-4000t • Silver 7t's • Krell KAV-300i • Oppo DV-981HD • Benchmark DAC1-USB • MacBook Pro 17", iTunes •
......• Technics SL-1350 turntable with Sumiko headshell, leads, and Bluepoint cartridge • Martin Logan Sequels •

.........................................................-+-Click Here to see my system-+-
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bikerdude523

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TFM-55

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Location: Oklahoma

Post Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:52 am

I know sub bass is supposed to Be non-directional, but BS. I have played with placement of my subs a lot, if you place it in the corner of the room it will have stronger and tighter bass response. Plus you can run the volume on the sub at a lower level which will give you cleaner sound with more head room. (The SMS-1 will help to make placement not as critical.) And if the sub is located on the same wall on the same axis as your front mains, you can run a stronger volume level on it and still have a good blend with your mains. I like to run my subs as strong as I can and still have a good blend with my mains. IMO if you place the sub in a front corner of your room, those recessed cabinets you have on that wall will make the bass suck the carpet out from under your feet. I've had my subs on the opposite wall as my mains and it greatly limited the output level I could run my subs at and still blend with my mains. The audiophile crowed will disagree with all of this because the frequency's should be flat across the board, which does make the sub non-directional but who likes flat.

The SMS-1 has three sub outputs with no left and right separation, which I consider it's only down fall. If it had left and right separation you could run a sub in each corner with even more volume and still have a good blend.
If you are a true audiophile and like the frequency spectrum to be as flat as possible, then disregard everything I just said ;)
2 channel rig
Sunfire Classic vacuum tube Preamp: (3) M-4.0t's: SD/A-490t: Polk Audio SDA SRS: Velodyne SMS-1: (2) Velodyne DLS5000R's
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treitz3

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"Julian"
"Julian"

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Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:16 am

If you are interested in the Velodyne SMS-1, here's a link to one that's been powered up, but not used. FYI.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57744

You cannot post or PM if you are interested, but I can for you if you are interested. LMK. Also, I have time this weekend to maybe pop down and give your setup a "critical listen" that I didn't have the chance to do at CF. Call me if you are going to be around.

Yeah, and whoever said subs are non directional needs to lay off the drugs. :roll:
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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TNRabbit

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Post Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:53 am

Congrats, Richard~~Enjoy! =D>
TNRabbit
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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treitz3

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"Julian"
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm

Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:35 am

Well Dreamer, I'm on my way in t-minus 10 minutes.......See you soon.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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bob p

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SILVER-7t

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Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:40 pm

Location: Chicago

Post Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:34 pm

bikerdude523 wrote:I know sub bass is supposed to Be non-directional, but BS.

I couldn't agree with you more!!! I.m sure that if we did testing of 1 vs. 2 sub systems we could all hear the difference. That's because even at those low frequencies, our ears can still identify the time relationships when the sound waves arrive at our ears, thereby giving our brains the directional cues as to where the sound is coming from.

In the HiFi world, people try to tell us that subs are omnidirectional, and that because of this, we only need one sub instead of two. They try to tell us that omnidirectional is equivalent to "your ears are unable to locate the sound source." As BD said, and as our ears will tell us, that is a total load of crap. Why is it a load of crap? Because the marketing people aren't telling the truth about what omnidirectional means.

Audio drivers have a sweet spot. We're all familiar with that. The dispersion of tone (especially high frequencies) is narrow, so you have to be in the driver's sweet spot or else the volume drops off. Engineers plot this on charts that are known as polar response curves. Those curves essentially tell you how loud a signal of any given frequency will be when you are however many degrees off of the driver's axis you choose to position yourself.

Sub-bass frequencies ARE omnidirectional. What this means is that when sub-bass signals are reproduced by a subwoofer, the sound waves are radiated with pretty much equal energy in all directions. It DOES NOT mean that your ears can't identify the source. It only means that the source radiates sound in all direcitons.

What we have here is a good example of another engineering concept that's been totally misunderstood and misapplied by the HiFi industry. Or maybe its been a concept that's been intentionally obfuscated by the marketing departments. Either way, there is considerable misunderstanding in the audio-video world about what omnidirecitonal really means. Omnidirectional means that the sound source radiates sound in all directions. It has nothing to do with whether or not your ears can localize the source, which is what the salespeople are trying to con you into believing.

My take on this then, is that for a good HiFi system that has subs, you need one for each of your left and right channels. One is not enough. For a home theatre system, it would be best to have a 5.5 system, or a7.7 system, or a 9.9 system, but its a lot easier to sell 5.1, 7.1 and 9.1 systems, so that is where the industry has taken us. For home stereo, I agree with @bikerdude, and i think that the best solution is 2.2. Even though we'd all probably prefer 2.2, as @Dreamer can tell us, 2.1 is still better than 2.0.

Enjoy, Dreamer!
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.
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Mad Dog

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Location: Planet Carver

Post Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:52 pm

I'm using a pair of stereo subs; Acoustic Research ARS-300, 12" downfiring sub with a Carver Sunfire amplifier. Then for some added punch I go through an AudioControl Phase Coupled Activator-Series Three with built in crossover. I usually bypass the AudioControl for music but I almost always use it for movies. For those unfamiliar with this unit here's a link:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_3_1/v3n1h.html
M-500t, C-1, TX-11a, Polk Audio RTA 12b's, 2 ARS300 Subs, AudioControl PCA Series Three
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garcianc

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TFM-35

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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:37 am

Location: Washington DC

Post Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:21 pm

Congrats Dreamer!
You know what would fix that magnetic interference problem between your tv and the sub... a new TV, of course. Better yet, instead of putting the sub at the back of the room, get yourself a projector. No need to thank us, that's what we are here for, to find new and creative ways for others to spend money. O:)
On a slightly more serious note, since you are computer-savvy, you might want to give the Room EQ Wizard a try. That suggestion is free.
The program is designed to be used with a parametric equalizer (like a Behringer Feedback Destroyer or a SMS-1), but you can use it by itself to measure your room's response to placement and "tweaking" or your sub.
Enjoy!
Nelson
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Magnaryder

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(pair of) SILVER-7t's

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Post Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:55 pm

Richard : congrats on the new sub!! I thought you had Rabbit's sub tweeked properly at CarverFest and I couldn't locate it when the X-over freq and sub volume were correct. I read somewhere that you can place the sub anywhere in the room and crawl around on the fllor and where the bass sounds the best is where the sub should be placed.

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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TNRabbit

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

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Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:27 pm

Magnaryder wrote:I read somewhere that you can place the sub anywhere in the room and crawl around on the fllor and where the bass sounds the best is where the sub should be placed.


Obviously a method developed during a weekend of heavy imbibing!!

O:) O:)
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

bob p

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SILVER-7t

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Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:40 pm

Location: Chicago

Post Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:33 pm

TNRabbit wrote:
Magnaryder wrote:I read somewhere that you can place the sub anywhere in the room and crawl around on the fllor and where the bass sounds the best is where the sub should be placed.


Obviously a method developed during a weekend of heavy imbibing!!

O:) O:)


if the subwoofer sounds good where you fall down drrunk, does that count???
Carver Preamps: C-1, C-2, BillD's JVD-modded C-4000, C-9
Carver Amplifiers: BillD's C-500, M-1.5t (4) PM-1.5 (4) M-500t (2)
Repair/Restoration/Upgrade expert for all of these components.
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