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Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

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tah800

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Post Fri May 02, 2008 7:20 pm

Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

Will a TG5 actually sound better than my C1 preamp I have now??? I realize all the great advantages this processor will afford me but will it actually sound better. You can pick up an old C1 for less than 200 bucks The TGP-5 will set you back over 2500. You'd almost think it would sound better or are you really just paying for all it's features. Art
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treitz3

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"Julian"
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Post Fri May 02, 2008 7:42 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

Art, glad to hear from you again. Good to see you are still at it!

No comment other than that as I have not heard them head to head. Rock on bro'!
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
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BillD

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Post Fri May 02, 2008 8:01 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

I have a C-4000 modified to be a lot better than stock - but originally close to a C-1, and a Sunfire TGP-III. I like the C-4000 better for anything analog, especially phono (one part that was heavily modified), but FM as well with a separate tuner (Kenwood KT-8300) and tape (Nakamichi). But I take the digital direct from the digital sources and use the awesome DACs in the Sunfire (24 x 192), which sounds better to me (and I've A/B'd them analog vs. digital). If you have a not-too-expensive CD player (I actually have an Oppo combo player, which has very good DACs itself) that you listen to a lot, I'd go with the Sunfire and take the digital out of the CD player. I also have a Squeezebox (which also has good DACs) that I take digital out of through the Sunfire, so all my iTunes library (in Apple lossless) gets decoded by the Sunfire. The Sonic Holography is better for digital sources in the Sunfire and better in the C-4000 for analog sources IMHO.

Short answer, go where the best DACs are. If they are in your source, go with an analog pre, otherwise go with a digital pre.

BTW, I'd pick up a used TGP III or IV rather than a TGP-V. You can save some bucks, and at least I know that the III was made in the USA.

EDIT: The TGP's also have 8 channel analog input (I use that for SACD using the DACs in the Oppo),
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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TNRabbit

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Post Fri May 02, 2008 8:36 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

I had a C-2 and it was NO COMPARISON to either my Sunfire Ultimate Receiver OR TG-IV. And again as Bill said, you get all the neat toys with the Sunfire...
TNRabbit
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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Dreamer

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Post Thu May 22, 2008 12:11 am

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

BillD wrote:I have a C-4000 modified to be a lot better than stock...


Bill, could you PM me as to the details of this mod? Did you do it yourself, or did someone mod it for you? My C-4000t is in pretty good shape, but it's starting to get a little noisy sometimes, and the stock SH is, as I'm sure you know, perhaps the most noisy circuit ever put in a Carver product. I'd like to keep thsi classic preamp in service, and your modded unit sounds like just what I've always dreamed the C-4000t SHOULD have sounded like.

--Richard
.....HT Rig • Sony STR-DG600 Receiver • Carver M-500t • Sony BDP-S1 • Sony DVP-NS3100ES • Apple Airport Express •
..............................• Martin Logan Scenarios, Logos • Realistic Minimus 7's • Velodyne F-1500b •

2 Ch. Rig • Carver C-4000t • Silver 7t's • Krell KAV-300i • Oppo DV-981HD • Benchmark DAC1-USB • MacBook Pro 17", iTunes •
......• Technics SL-1350 turntable with Sumiko headshell, leads, and Bluepoint cartridge • Martin Logan Sequels •

.........................................................-+-Click Here to see my system-+-
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skip

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Post Thu May 22, 2008 1:39 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

Another big diference between the sunfire and C-1 is a remote. Wish I had one. I'm currently looking for a Sunfire tube reference pre (two channel, not a TGP) which I'm sure will smoke my trusty C-1.
Sasquatch
TnRabbit's Assistant Official OCCD Enabler.

How long a minute is, depends on what side of the bathroom door you're on.
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BillD

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Post Thu May 22, 2008 4:01 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

Dreamer, PM sent. Skip, IMHO, I think that if you use digital sources without an excellent DAC (i.e., Benchmark or better - read "expensive"), the TGP is going to perform better (digital out to the TGP). If you use analog sources (phono, tape, tuner), the analog C-1 will probably do a better job. In that I have a very good C-4000 (the big brother of the C-1) and a TGP, I have compared them quite a bit.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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tah800

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Post Thu May 22, 2008 4:33 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

Just wanted to say that dollar for dollar that little C1 preamp is really amazing. I've tried other preamps im my system over the years and that old C1 stays right with them
. I really hope the TG-5 sounds better but I'll have to reserve jugement. One thing I will tell you if it's no better I will say so even though these processors cost ten times more than those C1's. I'm not goung to kick it out of the system just yet. I've always had the amazings and Silver 9t's so I can't really say how it would work with other gear. Art
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BillD

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Post Thu May 22, 2008 4:58 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

Well, you're getting a lot more than just a preamp. You're getting all sorts of digital decoding (up to 7.1 - 9.1 if you consider the lame side speakers), digital bass management, video switching digital inputs and outputs (both 75 ohm and optical). It's just a different beast altogether. It's really for video, but it does a pretty damned good job with audio, too. Oh, I forgot - 8 channel direct, just perfect if you have an SACD player (I use my Oppo 980H - which has 24 bit 192kHz DACs).
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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Dreamer

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Post Thu May 22, 2008 5:51 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

BillD,

The TGP-V does HDMI video switching, but it DOES NOT carry digital audio over it's HDMI ports from what I understand, so you still need to connect any HDMI device to it with a TOSLINK or coax for sound, right?

I dodn't realise it had digital bass management. How does it stack up against the Velodyne SMS-1? Does anyone out there with a TGP-4 or 5 also have an SMS-1? How to they compare?

Also, does anyone with one of the Sunfire preamps also have a Benchmark DAC? How do the on-board DACs in the Sunfire pre's stack up against the Benchmark for 2-channel? I know they beat the Benchmark for multi-channel (the Benchmark is only 2-channel), but I'm curious how the Sunfires do as far as stereo DACs.

--Richard
.....HT Rig • Sony STR-DG600 Receiver • Carver M-500t • Sony BDP-S1 • Sony DVP-NS3100ES • Apple Airport Express •
..............................• Martin Logan Scenarios, Logos • Realistic Minimus 7's • Velodyne F-1500b •

2 Ch. Rig • Carver C-4000t • Silver 7t's • Krell KAV-300i • Oppo DV-981HD • Benchmark DAC1-USB • MacBook Pro 17", iTunes •
......• Technics SL-1350 turntable with Sumiko headshell, leads, and Bluepoint cartridge • Martin Logan Sequels •

.........................................................-+-Click Here to see my system-+-
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BillD

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Post Thu May 22, 2008 6:14 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

Gary (TNRabbit) has a TGP-IV and a Benchmark DAC. WRT to HDMI carrying audio, I don't know. I have a TGP-III and the III and IV had no HDMI. I think digital bass management isn't as sophisticated as with an SMS. I don't believe it does equalization. You need a Sunfire True Subwoofer EQ. (One of these days).
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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TNRabbit

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

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Post Thu May 22, 2008 8:27 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

tah800; what exactly are your requirements? What are you hoping to get? If we know these answers we might be able to steer you better...

I will say that in processor bypass mode ("sound direct") the Sunfire is DEAD SILENT and I don't think you can beat it. Unfortunately, you can't engage Sonic Holography in this mode.
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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Mr. M-500t

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Post Fri May 23, 2008 12:11 am

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

I can't believe this has gone as far as it has !
From everything I've heard about Sunfire' how can Carver even compare ? :-s
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Magnaryder

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Post Mon May 26, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

Mr. M-500t wrote:I can't believe this has gone as far as it has !
From everything I've heard about Sunfire' how can Carver even compare ? :-s


Get thee a Lightstar.

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

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tah800

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Post Tue May 27, 2008 10:19 am

Re: Sunfire Theater Grand V Vs C1 preamp

To answer the question on how can Carver compare to Sunfire,think of it this way it really is Carver with a different name on it. Old Bob designed most of the stuff anyway. Art
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