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Home Theater Hook-up

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tah800

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:46 pm

Home Theater Hook-up

I'm presently just getting the remaining cable to get my surround system up and runnning. The salesman selling me cables is suggesting the following. To hook up my Blu ray player to the system he is suggesting that I buy 2 HDMI cables and go through my Sunfire TGP-5 processor. I asked him why not go direct to the T.V. with one HDMI cable and run a set of audio cables to the processor.His reasoning was that if I was using Blu Ray discs that I would not be getting 1080p sound to the speakers. I've never thought of 1080p sound have you???He is also suggesting a single digital cable running from my CD player to the TGP-5. Good idea or not???? Art
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TNRabbit

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:02 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

Are you running 5.1 or 7.1?

There's no such thing as 1080p sound...what a dope.

If you're running 5.1 sound, you can run 5.1 analog outs, or a single TOSLINK, or an HDMI. Although I don't think the Sunfire will do HDMI SOUND, just passes HDMI Video signal.....?
TNRabbit
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BillD

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:04 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

Your salesman doesn't know the TGP-V very well, does he. AFAIK, the Sunfire TGP-V does not process audio at all off of HDMI. It is merely a switch. Your idea of going direct to the TV with HDMI is the correct one. Second, I think your salesman was talking about new Blu-ray formats, like Dolby Digital plus, True HD and DTS HD Master Audio. Your salesman probably knew but didn't tell you that only a handful of processors decode them. THe right thing to do is, when you don't have a A/V processor that can decode them, have the player do it if it can. Sometimes they do it (like the Oppo BDP-83) and sometimes they down convert it to regular DTS or Dolby Digital.

I run 8 RCA channels out of my Oppo into my Sunfire and let the Oppo do the decoding of the Blu-ray formats if they are used on the disc I'm watching. I use normal coax (digital cable) from the Oppo to have the Sunfire decode normal DTS and Dolby Digital signals. So, at least your salesman got that right.

I see Gary chimed in. My post is still apropos, though.
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BillD

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:09 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

Replaced with post below.
Last edited by BillD on Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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BillD

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:11 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

BTW, are th MLs your back surrounds (6 & 7 out of 7.1) or your rear surrounds (4 and 5)? If they are 4 & 5, you need to get them further to the sides of your sitting area.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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Jag_97470

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:17 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

It's my understanding 1080p is resolution of HD images. True the HDMI will also carry audio and I think what he is saying is the HDMI will carry all the surround audio using the HDMI to your processor. It's the surround material from the Blu-Ray that is the question. You can use like BillD does with his Blu-Ray using the 8 audio out's, but your looking at "a lot" of cables. Using the digital cable from you cd player will use the D/A converter in your processor. I tried both with my Jolida CD player and actually liked the analog cable sound better > using analog RCA cables uses the D/A converter in the Jolida. I think you have more options than the salesman is telling you. Maybe the salesman is keeping it simple (that is his job), the kiss theory (keep it simple stupid). Not saying you are stupid, but most of his customers probably are, haha.
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Jag_97470

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:23 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

TNRabbit wrote:Are you running 5.1 or 7.1?

There's no such thing as 1080p sound...what a dope.

If you're running 5.1 sound, you can run 5.1 analog outs, or a single TOSLINK, or an HDMI. Although I don't think the Sunfire will do HDMI SOUND, just passes HDMI Video signal.....?


I did not know that Rabbit! I assumed the TGP-V would pass HDMI audio, and you say it only passes HDMI video? That doesn't make sense to me, if your going to purchase the TGP-V for big bucks, I would think one cable is all I need to fulfill my fantasy! LOL! Might as well keep my TGP-III without the HDMI if that is the case?
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PDR

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:45 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

They're not really big bucks anymore Jerry.....bought mine a year and a bit ago for $1350 US...I would imagine
they have come down in price a bit more since then.

I also run my HDMI cable directly to my TV...Use the Dac in my Sunfire for DVD and the Dac in my Raysonic for 2 ch.
The only time I use the Dac in the Denon is for Sacd.

Do you guys know if the III,IV and V all use the same DAC?
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BillD

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:53 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

OK this is getting confusing. First, on the disk there is the video portion which the Blu-Ray player decodes and passes along the HDMI cable on a series of wires capable of 1920x1080 pixels at over 240 frames a second. If connected to a Sunfire input, all it does is activate the audio channels associated with that video input and pass it along to its output counterpart. There is also an audio component in a compressed format on the disk. This audio portion must be decompressed (hence compression/decompression, or codec) into a digital bitstream or some well recognized digital format (like a Linear Pulse Code Modulated stream, or LPCM) or to analog. Now, we all know what we can do with the analog outputs — just connect them to analog inputs and voilà... Digital is more difficult. For most A/V receivers, the common codecs that could be decoded directly were DTS and Dolby Digital (DD). They compete to this day, so most receivers do both, and most players can be configured to pass the signals directly to the receiver without conversion to some other format. The bandwidth requirement of these signals is such that they can be passed over standard coaxial cable (RG-6/U or RG-59/U or optical like TosLink). The new formats available on Blu-ray require more bandwidth and are copy protected. Even if RG-6/U could pass the bandwidth requirement (I actually think it can), because HDMI is a secure connection (can't copy from it), these signals can only be transferred undecoded over it. The signals can be downconverted to standard formats like DTS or DD to be carried over coax or TosLink, or converted to analog (without the fidelity loss of downconverting). So, to get the best fidelity, you're best to go analog 8-channel out of your Blu-ray player to your A/V preamp. I think Sunfire made a wise decision not to play the codec game in the processor with the state of the video business still in so much flux. There are clearly more changes to come, and it's far easier for a company that is vested in playing new software (like the DVD player manufacturers) to keep up with the codec game than a high-fidelity company. What Bob did was create a platform with the analog inputs necessary to play anything that has 8 channels or less.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
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engtaz

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"TAZ"

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:26 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

Simple love the setup.
engtaz


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tah800

TFM-25

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:41 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

O.K. Bill that was a marvelous write up . Did old Artie understand a word of it. NOT. So getting back to my original question. There is no real advantage to running the HDMI to the TG-5.and then to the T.V. I would save on one Cable here . I'm going to use good ones at about $150 a pop. I've seen that 8 channel set up on the back of the processor but have no idea what it's all about. I take it there is something similar on the blu ray player which I don't have yet. There was mention of my Scripts needing to be placed more to the corners. I have just lag bolted those things to the wall and they are directly above an outlet for each one . They do have to be plugged in . They will swivel on their brackets so shouldn't that work out all right. The system is 5.1 not 7.1. Again Bill I do appreciate the effort there I'm just not to swift when it comes to the technical stuff. I did, however, wonder if the salesman was on the right track when he talked about 1080p sound. In my old cheap surround I simply ran audio cables to my old C1 preamp and it seemed to sound just great. Art
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Dreamer

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Post Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:51 pm

Re: Home Theater Hook-up

Art,

BillD's write-up on the HDMI capabilities of the Sunfire preamp are spot-on.

And the fact is that unless you are using your preamp/processor as a "video source switcher" in a REALLY complicated Home Theater setup, there is absolutely NO advantage to running your hi-def video sources through it. Just like with audio, in a video signal chain, you want to keep the components in the chain to a minimum--even a component with simple pass-through/switching capabilities has the potential to add/subtract/degrade the signal. Keep ALL the connections in your high-end A/V setup to a minimum for best performance.

I run my Blu-Ray player directly to the TV via HDMI, AND I run a digital coax from the BluRay to my pre/pro for surround-sound signals. This way, if I want to have the full-on HT experience, I get a great picture (direct HDMI link) AND great sound (digital coax is WAY better-sounding than TOSLINK--don't EVEN get me started on the evils of TOSLINK). The added advantage to this is that since my TV has pretty decent stereo sound built-in, we don't have to engage the whole 5.1 system for watching the news, or other material that isn't really sound-critical...

As far as HDMI cables go, there are cables, and then there are CABLES. Truth be told, if you're not spending at least severl hundred dollars on an HDMI cable (like a Nordost or Transparent, or something in that league) you are throwing money away on some company's brand name and advertising, NOT getting improved quality in signal transmission. Monsters, AudioQuests, and all those "consumer hi-fi" brands are mostly hype. HDMI is HDMI--if a cable meets the specs of HDMI, they really are mostly the same. HOWEVER, all that said, there are some GREAT cables that cost a FRACTION of the price of these "brand name" wires that actually (in my opinion) outperform them in both durability and signal transmission. Go to MonoPrice.com, and get their best HDMI cables. They will cost you about 1/10th of what Monsters or AQ's will, and although they don't have all the gee-whiz packaging and fancy covering sheaths, they perform GREAT. I started out with a Monster M-1000 HDMI cable in my setup, and was pleasantly shocked to find it was bettered by a Monoprice cable that was literally 1/10th the cost...

Just so you folks know, the cables that ship with Oppo players are made by the same OEM supplier that Monoprice sources their HDMI's from.

And Art, great choice on the Martin Logan center and rears. As you can see from my rig, I'm a BIG fan of Martin Logan speakers too... ;)
--Richard
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