FAQ  •  Register   •  Gallery •  Login

It is currently Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:43 pm

*~Gone Active~*

<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13283

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:46 pm

*~Gone Active~*

I pulled out the solder iron & bypassed the passive crossovers in my AL-IIIs today; it took about 2 hours all told to get the Ashley crossover installed (what a snakes nest behind the unit now with 5.1 setup!!) and unsolder the x-over and solder the speakers back inline with the fuses*. \:D/ \:D/

*Should I be using a lower rated fuse now without the crossovers installed??

About 15 seconds after I finished & was connecting the last speaker to the amp, a major storm blew through and knocked out our power for about 2 hours!! ](*,) ](*,)

The power came back on about the time & had decided to just go to bed, so I ran upstairs & got everything prepped, turned it on, adjusted the crossover and discovered....

....
....
...
...
...
...

I HATED the sound coming out of the ribbons (nasal-ish sounding), and the bass was weak! #-o

SO, I did some playing around with the levels, gave a little bit of treble boost via the TG-IV, and it's now sounding MUCH better, although I realize I'm not going to be happy until I get the Rane parametric equalizers in place (20 minutes left on the auction as I type this!) & shape the sound a little. First impression is the upper midrange is boosted a LOT with this direct connection, but I can also tell a lot of power has been freed up from the amp. The AL-III x-overs are real power hogs~

So far, things are sound pretty damned good :-" :-" :-"

More to come...................... 8)
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13283

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:07 pm

Re: *~Gone Active~*

Auction just ended on the Rane crossovers; got two of 'em, consecutive serial numbers, in really good shape for $122.00~ WOO HOO! \:D/ \:D/ \:D/
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13283

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:16 pm

Re: *~Gone Active~*

Auction just ended on the Rane crossovers; got two of 'em, consecutive serial numbers, in really good shape for $122.00~ WOO HOO! \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

Image
Image
Image
Image
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13283

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:31 pm

Re: *~Gone Active~*

WOW, will this bitch ever get LOUD now!!! :shock:

I also have to say the Ashley crossover is DEAD SILENT....even better than I was expecting!
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

stevewithrow

User avatar

SILVER-7t

Posts: 1327

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:59 am

Location: Great NorthWest.....Carver Country..

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:10 am

Re: *~Gone Active~*

WTF Gary......Now I have to come over and hear this.....Congrats on the auctions bro....!!!! =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> ....We need new pics of the new set up...
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13283

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:20 am

Re: *~Gone Active~*

Pics from the evening festivities:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13283

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:32 am

Re: *~Gone Active~*

Interesting, they just sound "faster" and tighter than before...like they've been released from some sort of sonic molasses....??

Not sure what I mean by "faster", but that's the only term I can come up with to describe it~





On an unrelated note, this will soon occupy a spot over the top of my stack:

Image
Last edited by TNRabbit on Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

engtaz

User avatar

"TAZ"

Posts: 5186

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:43 pm

Location: Tampa, FL

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:10 am

Re: *~Gone Active~*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looking good. Keep us posted and take pics of the settings on the Ashley and/or Rane crossovers when your done.
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
Bogen SRB20 is computer amp
Carver PM-350 donated for youth church use
<<

kingman

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 5593

Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:10 pm

Location: Upstate South Carolina

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:01 am

Re: *~Gone Active~*

Keep us posted on the progress......
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!
<<

Zoot Horn

User avatar

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 3000

Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:26 pm

Location: 4th Tower of Inverness

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:52 am

Re: *~Gone Active~*

Hey,, where did you get the "left handed iron". 8)


Keep us posted when you get the Rane's--
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13283

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:03 am

Re: *~Gone Active~*

FYI: Right now-just based on what I hear, I've got the woofers bumped up about +2.5 (not sure if that's dB or what, but that's on the Ashley's scale) and the ribbons -1.0 for level, then the crossover is set to 200 Hz with a 6 dB/octave slope (Linkwitz-Riley filter).
Last edited by TNRabbit on Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13283

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:14 am

Re: *~Gone Active~*

TNRabbit wrote:Interesting, they just sound "faster" and tighter than before...like they've been released from some sort of sonic molasses....??

Not sure what I mean by "faster", but that's the only term I can come up with to describe it~



I think I've found out why it sounds tighter/faster:

"with an active crossover, the power amplifiers are directly connected to the speaker drivers, thereby maximizing amplifier damping control of the speaker voice coil, reducing consequences of dynamic changes in driver electrical characteristics, all of which are likely to improve the transient response of the system"

(from Wikipedia)
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13283

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:34 am

Re: *~Gone Active~*

Zoot Horn wrote:Hey,, where did you get the "left handed iron". 8)


Keep us posted when you get the Rane's--


Made it myself! BillD uses the same model....

Roy, here ya go:

Image
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13283

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:01 am

Re: *~Gone Active~*

Active Bi-Amping FAQ for anyone wondering what the hell it is I'm doing:

“What is Active Bi-Amping?”

Active bi-amping uses one amplifier for low frequencies and another for mid/high frequencies—per audio channel. This is done via the use of an active crossover unit which is inserted between the preamplifier and power amplifiers.

“What are the advantages of active bi-amping?”

1) It provides much greater driver control than a passive crossover/full-range-loaded amplifier configurations.

2) It provides a better load for your amplifiers to drive, and an effective gain in each amplifier’s effective output. It will provide lower amplifier-originated intermodulation distortion (IMD).

3) It provides much greater protection of your tweeter/midrange drivers under clipping/overload conditions.

4) It provides the ability to use less expensive amplifier designs for each driver.

5) It provides for time alignment of drivers within a single speaker (a “must have” capability)

6) It provides for better crossover performance in both amplitude AND phase in the crossover region for smoother crossover performance, including more stable soundstage imaging vs. frequency.

7) It provides stability of crossover performance relative to passive crossover drift during and immediately after under high-load speaker output conditions, i.e., it maintains electrical output linearity under heavy load conditions.

8) It requires lower-quality wire/connectors than a similarly configured passive crossover/full-range amplifier configuration.

9) It allows on-the-fly changes in crossover frequency, EQ and channel gain settings to support changes in your setup configuration, i.e., facilitating the fine-tuning use of tools like Room EQ Wizard [REW], replacing individual drivers, speaker position changes, and adding channels for playback (2.0, 5.1, 7.1, etc.).

“What are the disadvantages of bi-amping?”

1) It requires two power amplifier channels per speaker (with associated wires/connectors).

2) It requires an active crossover unit.

“What is an ‘active crossover’?”

1) An active crossover provides separation of frequencies of the incoming pre-amplifier output signals, breaking each upstream channel into two downstream channels (a woofer channel and mid-range/tweeter channel).

2) It provides higher-quality equalization (“EQ”) capability for each channel.

3) Digital crossovers typically provide for delay to allow for time alignment of the drivers within a single speaker. (This is a similar function to an AV Processer that time aligns speaker-to-speaker in a 5.1/7.1 array.)

“Do I need to disconnect my speakers’ passive crossovers from my drivers?"

Yes. At least the woofer (or low frequency driver) must be disconnected from the passive crossover to permit bi-amping. If your speakers are 3-way (i.e., woofer, midrange, tweeter in each cabinet), then you may retain the passive crossover between the midrange and the tweeter if using bi-amping (…but for tri-amping, all drivers must be disconnected from the passive crossover networks)

Can I use ‘passive bi-amping’?”

Passive bi-amping does not bring the benefits of active bi-amping, only the disadvantages of extra cables and connectors. Generally, it may not worth the expense of the extra amplifier, depending on your speaker power requirements. In particular, passive bi-amping does not provide for delay adjustment or filter/EQ parameter flexibility.

What active crossover brands/units should I use?

Many manufacturers make active crossovers, including ElectroVoice, Yamaha, Ashley, Behringer, Rane, Pass Labs, Marchand, Bryston, DEQX, etc. Prices go from around $150(US) to many thousands of dollars. Price is generally commensurate with sonic performance…

Have I seen active crossovers used in configurations other than a active crossover box?

Probably--the "powered subwoofer" channel found on most AV Receivers/Processors is a limited example of a for-purpose active crossover channel (i.e., mono bass channel). Usual features include gain control (at the integrated subwoofer/power amplifer unit), user selectable crossover frequencies, and sometimes Geometric GEQ/PEQ (graphical and parametric equalizer) filters built into the AVR/AVP.

Delay adjustment for each speaker channel is usually included in the AVR processor functionality to correct for speaker distance room placement variances. Additionally, an "Audyssey"-like feature on some AVRs/AVPs features a built-in real-time analyzer (RTA) to help the user set up their speakers in a room environment.


Also: http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

BillD

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 7295

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:54 pm

Re: *~Gone Active~*

Now that you've got that crossover out, can you diagram it for us. I count the three pots, six inductors, three film caps (yellow), two electrolytics (black and blue) and four power resistors (white and one of them really big). No one has a diagram, and we AL-III owners could really use one. There might be something hidden I can't see (especially under that film cap on the top pot).
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer
Next

Return to Carver Speakers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron
Powered by phpBB © 2011 phpBB Group.