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Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

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RustinR

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Posts: 13

Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:36 am

Location: Houston, TX

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:27 pm

Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

Hey - Does anyone have any experience with using one of the new Marantz AV8003 pre-amp HT processors with Carver amps? I had my TFM-35 hooked up to an old Kenwood KR-V 7060 Dolby Pro-Logic receiver (circa 1994) that I was using as a pre-amp for the mains and running only the surround speakers from it, but decided to get the full HDMI hi-def so-on and so-forth and got this cool, high $ preamp / processor from Marantz, planning to use it with my TFM-35's on the center and surronds and an A-500x on the front channels. So, got it all hooked up last night, listened to part of a CD, and the combination sounds like $@#t! ](*,) No sound-stage, poor dynamics, no 'air'...nothing musical like I had before, and that was with all of the surround stuff turned off and using the 'Pure Direct' (everything by-passed) setting. Has anyone else had any issues with substantially degraded, or at least in no-way improved sound quality when using a digital HT preamp / processor in leiu of a more analog one, or maybe do I just have some errant setting I have yet to discover? What other pre-amp / processors have you all used?
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helicopterpilotdoug

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SILVER-7t

Posts: 1951

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:04 pm

Location: Austin TX

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:56 pm

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

Rustin, I used a Pioneer VSX 84 TXSI as a pre for my mains, powered by a TFM-45. I can tell you there was a major difference between using it as a pre, and my Carver C-11. Much better sound using the dedicated preamp. I'm sure others on here can give you better advice, since I'm not familiar with the Marantz. If you are in the pass through mode, then the pre should not be making any difference. Maybe a interconnect problem? Or a HDMI cable problem?? I'm sure someone will chime in here soon.
Sunfire: Theater Grand IV, Cinema Grand Signature.
Carver: TFM-45, PST-24 Cassette, Extra Carver Gear: CT-6, C-11 (S/N 00001).
Polk Audio: Mains SRS 2.1TL, Center CSiA6, Surrounds FXiA6 and FXiA4, Sub DSW MicroPro 1000, Extra Speakers SDA 2A, SDA 2Btl, Monitor 10A.
Turntable: Dual CS 714Q
Bluray/SACD: Oppo BDP 83SE
CD: Sony 330 300 Disk changer

http://www.douglasconnection.com
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Jag_97470

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:06 am

Location: Oregon

Post Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:12 pm

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

:-k Are you using HDMI from your source components into the pre? If so, take out the HDMI and try just running RCA's. I only ask because most of the members here only use HDMI direct to the TV for video and that's it. It sounds like you need to experiment, maybe others will ring in too. Keep us posted.
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RustinR

Newbie

Posts: 13

Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:36 am

Location: Houston, TX

Post Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:22 pm

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

Doug / Jag - Thanks, this is quite helpful. I also got an e-mail from the guy I bought the unit from and he said it had a very spacious and open sound with the Marantz MM8003 power amp and the PSB speakers, so that makes me think there must just be some issue with the set-up. I only used the digital RCA from my iTransport and the analog RCA's from my CD player. I haven't gotten all the cables needed to hook-up the movie portion of it so far, so I have some setting up to do still. From what the guy I bought it from told me, there may be some latent EQ / speaker settings still, but from what I can tell of what the manual says the 'Pure Direct' mode is supposed to bypass all of that. I'll play around with it some more and see. I'm most worried that I have an amp incompatibility issue. While the Carvers have a 47k ohm input impedance, as does the Marantz MM8003 (which apparently is what the pre-amp is designed to run), the sensitivities are a bit different with a 2V input for rated power on the Carvers and a 1.5V input for a Marantz MM8003. That doesn't really seem like much difference, but to get a normal output level the volume control on the AV8003 has to be nearly all the way up; a normal listening level is around -14dB, on a -72dB to 0dB scale!
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helicopterpilotdoug

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SILVER-7t

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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:04 pm

Location: Austin TX

Post Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:08 am

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

RustinR wrote:Doug / Jag - Thanks, this is quite helpful. I also got an e-mail from the guy I bought the unit from and he said it had a very spacious and open sound with the Marantz MM8003 power amp and the PSB speakers, so that makes me think there must just be some issue with the set-up. I only used the digital RCA from my iTransport and the analog RCA's from my CD player. I haven't gotten all the cables needed to hook-up the movie portion of it so far, so I have some setting up to do still. From what the guy I bought it from told me, there may be some latent EQ / speaker settings still, but from what I can tell of what the manual says the 'Pure Direct' mode is supposed to bypass all of that. I'll play around with it some more and see. I'm most worried that I have an amp incompatibility issue. While the Carvers have a 47k ohm input impedance, as does the Marantz MM8003 (which apparently is what the pre-amp is designed to run), the sensitivities are a bit different with a 2V input for rated power on the Carvers and a 1.5V input for a Marantz MM8003. That doesn't really seem like much difference, but to get a normal output level the volume control on the AV8003 has to be nearly all the way up; a normal listening level is around -14dB, on a -72dB to 0dB scale!

This sounds like something is just not right. On my Piomeer -14db is about where I listen to one of those old time rock and roll songs when I want to crank it up!. Normal listening is around -24db to -19db, I'm sure this may be a dumb question, but have you checked the level controls on the back of the A-500? They control the input sensitivity. If they are not in the fully clockwise position, that could cause a lower output condition.
Sunfire: Theater Grand IV, Cinema Grand Signature.
Carver: TFM-45, PST-24 Cassette, Extra Carver Gear: CT-6, C-11 (S/N 00001).
Polk Audio: Mains SRS 2.1TL, Center CSiA6, Surrounds FXiA6 and FXiA4, Sub DSW MicroPro 1000, Extra Speakers SDA 2A, SDA 2Btl, Monitor 10A.
Turntable: Dual CS 714Q
Bluray/SACD: Oppo BDP 83SE
CD: Sony 330 300 Disk changer

http://www.douglasconnection.com
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helicopterpilotdoug

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SILVER-7t

Posts: 1951

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:04 pm

Location: Austin TX

Post Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:24 am

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

How are you doing Rustin? Have you figured out what the problem is?
Sunfire: Theater Grand IV, Cinema Grand Signature.
Carver: TFM-45, PST-24 Cassette, Extra Carver Gear: CT-6, C-11 (S/N 00001).
Polk Audio: Mains SRS 2.1TL, Center CSiA6, Surrounds FXiA6 and FXiA4, Sub DSW MicroPro 1000, Extra Speakers SDA 2A, SDA 2Btl, Monitor 10A.
Turntable: Dual CS 714Q
Bluray/SACD: Oppo BDP 83SE
CD: Sony 330 300 Disk changer

http://www.douglasconnection.com
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engtaz

User avatar

"TAZ"

Posts: 5229

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:43 pm

Location: Tampa, FL

Post Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:43 am

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

I have a 6003 and use it with a Adcom 555II for center and a M4.0t for frount LR with no problems and sounds fantastic.
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
Bogen SRB20 is computer amp
Carver PM-350 donated for youth church use
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RustinR

Newbie

Posts: 13

Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:36 am

Location: Houston, TX

Post Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:52 am

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

I got an e-mail back from the previous owner who said it sounded great in his system hooked up to the Marantz MM8003 matching amp, and noted that the 'multi' light that was illuminated meant that the multi-zone function was active and should be turned off, so I did that. It did seem to have a slight improving quality to the sound, the hollowed out mid-range (the sound was real peaky at the lows and highs, but not much in the middle) seems to have improved, but it still very much lacks in dynamics, and still seems to require a lot of input for the output level.
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helicopterpilotdoug

User avatar

SILVER-7t

Posts: 1951

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:04 pm

Location: Austin TX

Post Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:31 am

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

I would think then. if your Kenwood KR-V 7060 sounds good with the setup but the new Marantz does not, you may have a problem with the new pre/pro. You might try going to one of the Marantz forums, and look around for info there. Don't know what else to tell you. You did check those level controls on the back of the A-500 right?
Sunfire: Theater Grand IV, Cinema Grand Signature.
Carver: TFM-45, PST-24 Cassette, Extra Carver Gear: CT-6, C-11 (S/N 00001).
Polk Audio: Mains SRS 2.1TL, Center CSiA6, Surrounds FXiA6 and FXiA4, Sub DSW MicroPro 1000, Extra Speakers SDA 2A, SDA 2Btl, Monitor 10A.
Turntable: Dual CS 714Q
Bluray/SACD: Oppo BDP 83SE
CD: Sony 330 300 Disk changer

http://www.douglasconnection.com
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engtaz

User avatar

"TAZ"

Posts: 5229

Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:43 pm

Location: Tampa, FL

Post Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:23 am

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

Marantz gear is very neutral sounding. Denon has a warm sound. Lack of Dynamics could also be describing neutral sound. Try turning it up a little past your normal dial level to see if the Dynamics improve.
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
Bogen SRB20 is computer amp
Carver PM-350 donated for youth church use
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RustinR

Newbie

Posts: 13

Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:36 am

Location: Houston, TX

Post Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:42 pm

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

Doug / Engtaz - Yeah, both of the level adjustments on the A-500 are up all the way, as an aside, I'm curious why Carver's amps aren't more sensitive. It seems most pre-amps have an output between 200mV and 1V, but there amps require 2V for full output. At any rate, I'm going to play around with it a bit more and try it with some movie soundtracks, etc. If it still doesn't suit me, I may just send it back out to market and try something different. Thanks for the ideas / thoughts!
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BillD

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

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Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:29 pm

Location: The west's most mid-western town, Scottsdale, Arizona

Post Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:22 am

Re: Carver Amps w/ Marantz AV8003 Pre/Pro

My experience with Carver preamps is that they will do about 8V, way over the sensitivity of most amps. The C-1 will do 17dB above 0dBu (0.775Vrms), which is why there is a service bulletin to tame it.
It should sound like it isn't there!
There is a difference between hearing and listening...
Making life enjoyable through expensive electronics.
_________________
Carver: C-4000 & C-1 preamps, PSC-60 preamp/tuner, TX-11a tuner, M-400 (2), C-500, M-500, M-500t, M-500t Mk.II, A-500x, AL-III loudspeakers (2 pr.)
Sunfire:Theater Grand III processor, Ultimate Receiver, Cinema Grand Signature 400 ~ seven, True Subwoofer Mk. II, D-10 Subwoofer

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