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High line voltage issues at Carverfest

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Rainman

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Post Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:05 pm

High line voltage issues at Carverfest

Many of you had issues with the extremely high line voltage at Carverfest 2010 and there could have been some hurt equipment that was not detected at the time but could show up later. With this being said there is a solution for anyone who is concerned about the line voltage in the cabins being as high as 130v or more. Trust me on this one, if the line voltage where you are about to plug your gear in is that high you should be concerned. Most of you know I love the products from PS Audio, but this is one that I can guarantee you will fix a high voltage problem while protecting your gear and by truly controlling the voltage as well as ensuring proper HZ it WILL make it sound better. Here is a paste of the features on the Powerplant Premiere. If you have one of these it won't matter if the line voltage is 150v because your gear will only receive the voltage you select because you can select the voltage and hz that it will put out.

http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/list/power/

Rainman


Power conditioners and filters do just what their names imply: they condition and filter.

The Power Plant is neither a conditioner nor a filter. In fact, the Power Plant does just what its name implies: generates new AC power just like the generating station powering your home right now.

This fundamental difference sets the Power Plant Premier apart from any power conditioner or filter in the world. By installing a Power Plant you can power your system with the cleanest, purest power on the planet.
Your home's power is bad

Our home's AC sockets do not produce pure AC. In fact, what comes out of our receptacles is often distorted, noisy and at the wrong voltage. These distortions and AC problems result in poor performance for even the finest of equipment.

No power conditioner or filter made can fix these problems. What you need is a regenerator to build brand new power out of the original and that's just what a Power Plant does.

This unique device rebuilds the AC in your home by first converting the AC to DC and then back again to perfect AC. Once rebuilt, the output of the Power Plant feeds everything in your system and provides regulated, low distortion sine waves from the AC wall socket; something no other power conditioner in the world can do.

If you are listening or viewing your system without the benefit of a Power Plant's regenerated output, you are not getting all the promise your system is capable of delivering.

By generating new AC, the Premier produces up to 1500 watts of regulated power at an efficiency of 85% with little to distortion or noise. The Premier has ten outlets, five IsoZones™, a built in power sequencer, THD analyzer, voltage meter, MultiWave, CleanWave and a remote control to access all the features.
The history of the Power Plant regenerator

The most important problems in AC Power delivery are voltage regulation, distortion-clipped sine waves, multiple harmonics, and noise. They are big challenges, to be sure. Realizing that no power conditioner made could solve these basic problems, PS Audio introduced to the world the idea of building new power from old power.

In 1997, PS Audio introduced the world’s first AC regenerator, the P300 Power Plant. The P300 was an instant hit among audiophiles internationally (with more than 3000 units in the field). It produced up to 300 watts of pure regenerated AC power.

In November 2006, PS introduced today's newest generation of Power Plant, the Premier. The Premier is superior to any model of Power Plant we have produced. The Premier can deliver up to 1500 watts of pure regenerated AC with plenty of energy reserves to spare. Peak current delivery of over 50 amps is available, with an overall efficiency of 85%.
The technology

Think of the Power Plant in the same way its name suggests: a power generating station. Inside the Power Plant is a very powerful 1500 watt amplifier fed by a low distortion sine wave generator.

The internal power amplifier's output is what produces the AC power for your equipment and the sine wave generator feeds the input of this power amplifier with perfect AC.

Together, they produce up to 1500 watts of pure power. To place this level of power in perspective, your home's wall outlet can only provide a maximum of 1750 watts.

At 1500 watts there’s enough juice for even the most demanding system. Whether it’s an audio based two-channel system or a video based multi-channel home theater, the Premier will power pretty much anything you’ve got.
MultiWave and CleanWave

One of the many features unique to Power Plants are their abili

ty to produc e different pure waveforms. Unlike a power conditioner that only filters, Power Plants generate not only perfect sine waves but modified sine waves as well.

Why would you want to produce something different than what comes out of the wall? Because many pieces of equipment, specifically power amplifiers, benefit greatly from longer charging times at their peak energy needs. To provide this extended energy, you need to modify the waveform itself. That modified waveform is called a MultiWave.

MultiWaves were designed for PS Audio by Northrop Grumman scientist Doug Goldberg. His invention revolutionized the AC power conditioning industry. Instead of the classic sine wave, we find advantages in connected power supplies by changing some of the sine wave’s parameters.

MultiWave just makes most systems sound even better than one can imagine. MultiWave achieves this level of improvement by extending the charging time of the sine wave peak so attached power supplies have less ripple.

Yet another type of waveform option available on the Power Plant is called CleanWave and was invented by PS Engineering. CleanWave “degausses” the magneticly coupled power transformers of attached equipment. It does this by varying the frequency and amplitude o f the sine wave in small bubble-like responses. This feature allows you to "clean" attached equipment whenever you wish; the improvement in performance is dramatic.
THD in and out

THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) is a type of measurement generally associated with audio amplification products. THD measurments can also be used to good advantage when it comes to AC power. By measuring the THD of our home's AC power we discover the quality of that power feeding our equipment.

If you read the literature of our competitor's AC power product you will most likely never read any thing about THD; yet THD is a significant problem in AC. So why don't our our competitors talk about THD? There's a very simple reason: their equipment cannot eliminate or even effect THD. Only by rebuilding the AC and regenerating new power can you eliminate THD and only a Power Plant can manage to perform this miracle.

To help demonstrate the effectiveness of the Power Plant we placed a true THD meter on the Premier. Now, for the first time, you can now see how our home's power lines are polluted with 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and even higher harmonics as a result of AC sine wave distortion, common in everyone’s home. The Premier not only shows you how bad your AC is, you can also see to what extent the Premier is repairing the AC and eliminating the THD. Proof of clean power.

Want more proof? It's easy to use the Premier's THD analyzer to measure our competitor's claims. Simply insert any power conditioner or filter between the AC receptacle and the input of the Premier to see if there is an improvement. There will not be.
Voltage In & Voltage Out

THD is just one problem found on the AC line. Perhaps equally important is the actual level of voltage itself. In North America we want t o feed our equipment with pure 120 volts. In Europe and Asia we would like to see a pure 230 volts. What we actually receive from the power company is usually not what we want and the power demands of our equipment make this situation even worse.

To show you what problems you have and how well the Power Plant fixes them, the Premier’s front panel allows you to measure both incoming and outgoing voltage, or you can monitor the difference between the two. If the line voltage is 110 volts, for example, the Power Plant will show an output voltage of 120 and a difference of +10. The +10 is what the Power Plant is adding to the output to keep the voltage steady.

While several of our competitors make long term regulators that either correct these voltage differences slowly (like the AVS 2000) or in jumpy steps like those found in a UPS or transformer based unit, they cannot react quickly when the voltage changes due to power amps and projector demands under real-world conditions. The Power Plant can.
Question: Do you know why turds are tapered on the ends? Answer: So your asshole doesn't slam shut..

Carver- SDA490t, SDA450, 2 TFM45's, TFM15, CT23, CT28v, CT27v, Linn Kaber speakers, Sunfire crm2's, PS Audio Statement speaker cables and I/C's, A.P.C. power
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Jag_97470

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Post Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:20 pm

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

You can find these a lot cheaper if you keep your eyes open, check the ones for sale here > http://cgis.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/srch_f ... udio&B1=go
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angelod307

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:08 am

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

not only was the voltage high, but the gfb breakers that are hooked up for the outlets in downstairs cabin six would trip very, very easy like. just powering up the tfm55 would make it trip twice before it would stay on and forget turning it up at all or it would trip again. bites ass. i took bob's advice and swapped another breaker in the box and the problem was only worse and easier to trip. i have no idea what/why they used ground fault breakers in the bedroom, but they did and it sucked ass.
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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TNRabbit

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:06 am

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

angelod307 wrote:not only was the voltage high, but the gfb breakers that are hooked up for the outlets in downstairs cabin six would trip very, very easy like. just powering up the tfm55 would make it trip twice before it would stay on and forget turning it up at all or it would trip again. bites ass. i took bob's advice and swapped another breaker in the box and the problem was only worse and easier to trip. i have no idea what/why they used ground fault breakers in the bedroom, but they did and it sucked ass.


If you're tripping a breaker, it's not because the line voltage was high. It's been around 128 volts every CarverFest. Tripping a breaker means something else was pulling a lot of amperage on that same circuit.
TNRabbit
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Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
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Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

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Don

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:57 am

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

angelod307 wrote:not only was the voltage high, but the gfb breakers that are hooked up for the outlets in downstairs cabin six would trip very, very easy like. just powering up the tfm55 would make it trip twice before it would stay on and forget turning it up at all or it would trip again. bites ass. i took bob's advice and swapped another breaker in the box and the problem was only worse and easier to trip. i have no idea what/why they used ground fault breakers in the bedroom, but they did and it sucked ass.


Tip: Don't run a vibrator and a TFM-55 in the bedroom at the same time! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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angelod307

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:17 am

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

nope. just the little tv and sat box turned off. the box even labeled that breaker as down stairs recpticles. i just do not understand why they were ground fault.
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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angelod307

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:18 am

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

but of course, i did not run through out the cabin either. so i could be wrong.
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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TNRabbit

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:33 am

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

GFCI won't trip any easier than a regular circuit unless something is wired wrong....

maybe you've got a tiny amount of current flowing back through the ground on your amp?
TNRabbit
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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angelod307

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:41 am

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

TNRabbit wrote:GFCI won't trip any easier than a regular circuit unless something is wired wrong....

maybe you've got a tiny amount of current flowing back through the ground on your amp?

the amp (55) was just refurded by rolland at high tech. no problems what so ever at home. i even used a 35 with simular results. i am just hating on the ground fualt part because i have no other place to vent my anger for the issue i had running up and down the stairs several times reseting it.....
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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thuffman03

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:52 am

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

beemers417 had a Tice power block. It seems to have done a very good job of keeping us at a good voltage.

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl? ... er-Conditi
Some cool Carver stuff!
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mbskeam

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:06 pm

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

still,... 128-130V is out off spec....
the power company needs to fix this......

here is some reading...

I'll use my state law, most states have this....
or the power companys would be runnin amok....

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx ... 80-100-373
this one says 5% max or 8% total plus/minus....

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx ... 80-100-378


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_was_120V_ ... er_voltage

so what is the law in NC????

if the law is close to this, then the electric Co may not be aware they are outa spec....
but I bet they do know and dont care..... ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
Mbskeam


#1 BLACK BEAUTY's made by the man, the myth, the legend Bob Carver
CARVER: TFM-75, TFM-45(3), SD/A-490T
SUNFIRE: Tube pre
2 sets of ALS'3, set of SILVERS, set of PLATS
AUDIOCONTROL: phase coupled activator
KENWOOD: BASIC M2a (2)

“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes

The only thing I'll feel......will be the RECOIL
Necronomicon Ex-Mortis....... Klaatu Barada Nikkto
"We should seek the greatest value of our action"
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beemers417

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:56 pm

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

The Tice kicks ass. You can adjust voltage with it.
Gunter the wonder dog is watching you...
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Zoot Horn

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:15 pm

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

The tice is very nice--hook us up Tom. 8)
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mbskeam

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Post Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:38 pm

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

this took about 2 min to find.....

http://www.ncuc.commerce.state.nc.us/nc ... ulstoc.htm

chapter 8
page 11 and 12
on page 12 see sec: B sub sec:1



(b) In order to promote harmony between the service of electric suppliers and the utilization voltage requirements of presently manufactured equipment, the following service voltage variations are permitted:
(1) For service rendered for individual residential use or specifically for lighting purposes, the voltage variations shall not exceed five percent (5%) above or below the standard base voltage.

I dont think 134V falls within the plus/minus 5%.... :shock: :shock: :shock:

this page has the phone number to call, in the lower left corner......

hint...hint.... :D :D :D
Mbskeam


#1 BLACK BEAUTY's made by the man, the myth, the legend Bob Carver
CARVER: TFM-75, TFM-45(3), SD/A-490T
SUNFIRE: Tube pre
2 sets of ALS'3, set of SILVERS, set of PLATS
AUDIOCONTROL: phase coupled activator
KENWOOD: BASIC M2a (2)

“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes

The only thing I'll feel......will be the RECOIL
Necronomicon Ex-Mortis....... Klaatu Barada Nikkto
"We should seek the greatest value of our action"
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Rainman

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Post Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: High line voltage issues at Carverfest

TNRabbit wrote:GFCI won't trip any easier than a regular circuit unless something is wired wrong....
maybe you've got a tiny amount of current flowing back through the ground on your amp?



Rabbit, this is definitely not true. A gfci outlet or breaker is an extremely simple device. It works by making sure that the current is the same on the "in wire" and the
"out wire" (I know the in and out term is not technically correct, but that's how a gfci sees it)
If the gfci detects a slight difference of 5ma or more between the two wires it assumes that the missing current is being sent out via ground. It will then trip shutting the circuit off. Contrary to what is widely thought a gfci outlet does not care if it's grounded or not. It will still function as a gfci even though not having a ground on any circuit is a bad thing. You can plug in a device that only has a two prong cord into a gfci outlet and it will function just fine. There does not have to be a wiring issue for a gfci to trip for example our TFM45 will trip a gfci outlet every time and it has nothing to do with it's two prong cord. It will trip any standard gfci as soon as you push the power button.. Why? Because the TFM45 does not have a "soft turn on" feature like most newer gear so when you press the power button there is a brief heavy current load and the power up process is complicated so it takes longer than a standard gfci outlet or breaker will allow there to be a difference in the "in" and "out" wires. There are two ways to remedy this, #1 shit can the gfci outlet and replace with a hospital grade 20a isolated ground outlet. #2 for those of you who must have a circuit that protects in some way you can replace it with what is called an afci (arc fault circuit interrupt). Please note that afci circuits only protect against fire and not shock. (afci should be sufficient on your stereo circuit unless you are planning on showering with your amplifier) I hope this helps clear up some of the mysteries of the outlets that we all hate anyway.

Rainman
Question: Do you know why turds are tapered on the ends? Answer: So your asshole doesn't slam shut..

Carver- SDA490t, SDA450, 2 TFM45's, TFM15, CT23, CT28v, CT27v, Linn Kaber speakers, Sunfire crm2's, PS Audio Statement speaker cables and I/C's, A.P.C. power
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