ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Williams

Amazing Line Source - A new speaker design by Bob Carver and James Sauter
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AlexSauter
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Re: ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Willi

Post by AlexSauter » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:54 am

Scarabeo wrote:I think we should have a DISCOUNTED forum member price!
This has been thought of, but has not been brought up to the Bobs. My father plans to ask them both in a meeting at CF.
Scarabeo wrote:MY QUESTION IS: Will there be a ALS SIGNATURE??? I think there should be a set that has something the other ones do-not!
Special paint job - LED lighting - Golden plate with Bob's signature what ever! Bob never did that with his speakers (Only amp's) Any thoughts on this?
There has been talk about stuff like this, dad wants to put a blue LED in the base, it would come on when the speakers are playing and stay on for 5 minutes after they stop playing. Bob and Jordan already made a wiring diagram for this so that it is in-line with the drivers.

My father has also been talking the Bobs into custom paint jobs. I quote, "With these things being so damn expensive, the customer should be able to pick whatever color they want, if they want them Lamborghini Lime Green, tell them it's a little more."

As far as Gold Plates, NO WAY!!! My father is doing everything he can to keep gold off of these speakers.... Bob wanted to use binding posts similar to what is on the eBay 180's and 305's and my father said, "No fucking way, these speakers are so high end, why would you think of using chintzy parts?"

I pretty sure that we can consider the set at CF to be the most expensive pair for these speakers because they will be what my dad likes, not the production version....
My system (sitting in the garage):

(Stereo System)
Carver Pro PT-1800
Logitech Squeezebox
RCA-Headphone jack for iPod & iPhone

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engtaz
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Re: ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Willi

Post by engtaz » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:38 am

Custom Paint ???????
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
Bogen SRB20 is computer amp
Carver PM-350 donated for youth church use

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Re: ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Willi

Post by Toy Maker » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:08 am

I doubt it, but there really is no reason why it couldn't be done.
Figure all the extensions are milled and ready to go.
It would only take a couple days to do a custom paint job, and assemble a pair.
So you give them a 2-3 week custom paint job lead time... I'd wait for the color I wanted.

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Re: ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Willi

Post by mewisemagic » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:57 am

the sad thing is, they are going to be out of reach for alot of people. me anyway :( . and if the price is $18000 a pair. i don't see them flying out the doors in this economy :shock: . anyhow they look great
carver ct29v,tfm-15cb,tfm-35x,m1-ot,tlm-3600, pair of 9 t's ,c5,adcom 535 II,oppo 981 dvd, polk sda srs 2.3tl,polk sda srs 1.2
tfm-42,AL-III+, yaqin 10l

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Re: ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Willi

Post by angelod307 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:46 am

i know, a discount for all the prior bob carver purchases. 1% or 2% off for every piece of carver/sunfire/phase linear that you currently own against the msrp of those speakers. you see progressive insurance is not the only ones that can have multipeice discounts :lol: :lol: ....hahahaha
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Re: ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Willi

Post by OconeeOrange » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:19 pm

angelod307 wrote:i know, a discount for all the prior bob carver purchases. 1% or 2% off for every piece of carver/sunfire/phase linear that you currently own against the msrp of those speakers. you see progressive insurance is not the only ones that can have multipeice discounts :lol: :lol: ....hahahaha
Great idea ->
Let's see, I have:
6 amps, 2 preamps and 2 speakers = 20% off !!!! :lol: :lol:

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Carver forum discount......?

Post by treitz3 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:34 pm

Shit, there are folks on this forum that would be PAID to own the speakers if that were the case.

Not gonna happen.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

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Re: Carver forum discount......?

Post by OconeeOrange » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:47 pm

treitz3 wrote:Shit, there are folks on this forum that would be PAID to own the speakers if that were the case.

Not gonna happen.
So I guess Wayne does not get free speakers -- :(

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Re: ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Willi

Post by hewlew1 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:13 pm

OO, I have 10 amps, & 7 preamps and about 70 carver speakers. Do the math for me will ya as I never did graduate High School :rolleyes:
"Carver Audio, why settle for less, just ask my neighbors"
C1,C2,CT3,CT6,CT7/3,CT23,CT26,C4000,The Receiver,M500,M500T/6,M1.5T,TFM24/2,TFM/25/3,TFM35,TFM35X,TFM42/2,DTL200,TDR1700,DPL20,TX11/2, 5.2Center,5.1Sub/3,Original Amazings,Platinum Amazings/2,AL3'S,Polk SDA SRS, Polk SDA 1C's, Polk RTA11's, Polk Monitor 10's/2 ,Monitor 7's, Sunfire 300x2 /5, Sunfire pre, Sunfire MK2 Sub/2, 4 Carverfest monoblocks, Carverfest linestage preamp/2, Mapletree Audio Designs Tube Preamp,Phase Linear Andromeda III speakers, Phase Linear 4000 Preamp, Dahlquist DQ-10's
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Re: ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Willi

Post by OconeeOrange » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:40 pm

hewlew1 wrote:OO, I have 10 amps, & 7 preamps and about 70 carver speakers. Do the math for me will ya as I never did graduate High School :rolleyes:
Jim, you are maybe one of just a couple here who can afford to buy these. Then you surely will invite me over for chicken and tunes.

Good times ahead -- \:D/ \:D/

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Re: ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Willi

Post by ekog » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:56 pm

angelod307 wrote:i know, a discount for all the prior bob carver purchases. 1% or 2% off for every piece of carver/sunfire/phase linear that you currently own against the msrp of those speakers. you see progressive insurance is not the only ones that can have multipeice discounts :lol: :lol: ....hahahaha

Some one like Roland could get several sets of speakers for free :lol:
Main System Setup:
Pre: Carver C2 | Amp: Carver M-500t|Equilizer: Sansui SE99|Speakers: Polk SDA2’s
Source: Tuner: Carver TX-2| Phono: Technics SL-1210 MkII with a Ortofon VMS 20E Mk II| DirecTV DVR | Pioneer HLD-X9 Laserdisc player | Samsung DVD/VHS player

Second System Setup:
Receiver: Yamaha RXV867| Fronts: Klipsch F-30's |Sub: Klipsch SW-112
Source: Radio |Internet/Network | Sony CDP-70 CD player

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Re: ALS DEMO Bob Carver James Sauter Bob Farinelli Les Willi

Post by Toy Maker » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:53 pm

We brought the finished extrusions home tonight to start building the show set of for CF....

My 13yo daughter Jessica, just walked up to me and said, "Dude, those are SEXY" !! =D>

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Re: Carver forum discount......?

Post by kingman » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:20 am

OconeeOrange wrote:
treitz3 wrote:Shit, there are folks on this forum that would be PAID to own the speakers if that were the case.

Not gonna happen.
So I guess Wayne does not get free speakers -- :(
Damn...I'm still trying to figure out the benefit of having all this stuff...jeez.... :rolleyes:
In reality, it only matters what it sounds like to YOU!!!

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Re: Carver forum discount......?

Post by Chauss » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:49 pm

kingman wrote:
OconeeOrange wrote:
treitz3 wrote:Shit, there are folks on this forum that would be PAID to own the speakers if that were the case.

Not gonna happen.
So I guess Wayne does not get free speakers -- :(
Damn...I'm still trying to figure out the benefit of having all this stuff...jeez.... :rolleyes:
Your very own Carver museum! =D>
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Re: ALS Demo With Bob Carver, Bob Farinelli and Leslie Willi

Post by Toy Maker » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:20 pm

A reply from Bob on the Audiokarma thread discussion.
I will be posting there as well.
Bob Caver wrote:Bob Carver here.

I've been reading the commentary on my new speaker and find the interest very exciting. Some of the comments I will address now.

One: It can't be done

My answer: Of course it can. Not only that, but I am used to being accused of inventing things that can't be done, beginning with the Phase Linear 700 watt amplifier of long ago, all the way to my current high-pressure subwoofer. So I'm used to that.

Two: The ribbon looks like it's from Parts Express

Of course it is. I designed that ribbon over thirteen years ago for a loudspeaker I ended up developing and calling the Sunfire Cinema Ribbon. The ribbon was built in China by Hi-Vi for Homni, my Chinese supplier for drivers at the time. Shortly thereafter I sold the design to Hi-Vi as part of a joint cooperation agreement for manufacturing tooling, and subsequently it was delivered into the public domain by my intent. Hi-Vi, under the joint cooperation agreement, markets it worldwide and now sells it to Parts Express. Again, it was originally designed for my Cinema Ribbon and is still used in Cinema Ribbons today. It is truly an amazing ribbon, if I do say so myself.

Three: 121dB SPL

121dB SPL is an enormous sound pressure level but the numbers that teach us how it does that are comprised of simple arithmetic. I begin: A pair of the small woofers as utilized in the tried-and-true Cinema Ribbons produce a loudspeaker that has a sensitivity of 89dB SPL. The Cinema Ribbon was designed to absorb all the power that my 200 watt per channel amplifier could deliver. At 80 Hz it's peak-to-peak excursion is 0.48". Now, my new Amazing Line Source speaker has 22 of these drivers per channel. Since each driver can take 100 watts (92 watts with crossover losses), how much can each Amazing Line Source speaker handle? Well, 92 x 22 is 2,024 watts.  At those power levels and at 80 Hz, those woofers are moving back and forth 0.48". Or, from another point of view, 80Hz/4 (20 Hz) allows equalization and yields flat response down to 20 Hz with a 450 watt per channel amplifier, assuming a room gain of 8dB at 20 Hz (Theoretically it's 3dB per boundary, and there are three boundaries in a room for each speaker).

Four: Low Frequency Response

A line source that goes from floor to ceiling is a weird, spooky, and interesting thing. Imagine that your floor and ceiling are mirrors, and the line source has 22 candles instead of woofers. If we look at it, we will see candles going up infinitely to the sky and down infinitely below. The amazing thing is that each reflection of each candle generates real light and so do the reflected sound sources of the line array. Spooky because it seems as if it's something for nothing, and it almost is!  The same holds true for the ribbons. Each ribbon, on speech and music, can easily absorb 200 watts rms and there are thirteen of them per channel. Finally, 200 watts x 13 = 2600 watts - a walk in the park for these ribbons!

Five: Sensitivity - 96dB

Each time the area or the displacement is doubled - all other things held constant - the sensitivity increases 6dB. Here is the arithmetic: One ribbon = 89dB. two ribbons = 95dB. Four ribbons = 101dB. Eight ribbons is 107dB, and 16 ribbons would be 113dB sensitivity IF the voltage across each were held constant. Since these ribbons are in a complex series/parallel configuration we must subtract 17dB because the voltage across each ribbon is substantially lower (approximately 20% of the original voltage) yielding 96dB SPL sensitivity. The precise calculation is as follows: There are thirteen ribbons, so 10 x log(13) is 11dB. 11 + 89 = 100dB, and the crossover throws away 4dB, for a net of 96dB sensitivity. That's the science.

Six: "Distortionless"

Strictly speaking, nothing is distortionless. However, in hi-fi, if the distortion is below our threshold of audibility we can color it gone. If it's gone we can't hear it and I consider it sufficiently distortionless to call it thus in my use of colloquial English.

Seven: "fast and loose with hyperbole"

I plead guilty for hyperbole, not guilty for fast and loose; my designs always deliver the performance and the numbers, for real, every time, as evidenced by independent reviewers over and over again through the years. Wait and see.

Thanks guys, your comments and passionate responses to this new loudspeaker have made me think.

Great comments, warmest and best,

Bob Carver

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